Kia K900 RWD flagship sedan
10-23-14, 07:19 PM
#241
Lexus Fanatic
All of the old American sedans in Detroit's Golden Age were not alike in the suspension department by any means. The Ford and GM-sourced sedans, with coil springs, generally had ultra-soft, Cream-of-Wheat front/rear coil-spring suspensions (exceptions were the FWD Olds Toronado/Cadillac Eldorado large coupes with front-torsion bars). Most Chrysler products had torsion-bar front/leaf-spring rear suspensions, which were markedly better handling but also firmer and noisier. American Motors also generally used coil springs front and rear, but were a little firmer and noisier than the pillow-soft Ford/GM cars. Chrysler and AMC, except for the pre-1966 Chrysler Imperial, generally used unibody frames (hence their higher noise levels), whereas Ford and GM (except for the Toronado/Eldorado and their stub frame torsion/leaf setup) used the quieter body-on-frame design....at that time, it was difficult to make a quiet-riding unibody.
Last edited by mmarshall; 10-23-14 at 07:33 PM.
10-24-14, 12:31 PM
#243
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
ha makes me feel nostalgic for old detroit sedans with floaty suspensions and big v8's. flooring them was a huge hoot.
10-27-14, 04:02 AM
#244
Seriously though? That Kia front end? I know it's superficial but for that kind of money you're allowed to be picky, and there's no way in hell I'd buy that Kia over that Genesis.
10-27-14, 06:27 AM
#245
Lexus Fanatic
Having driven both of them, they're both very impressive cars. The K900 has a somewhat sportier look with its more aggressive front grille, also more features inside and, despite the aggressive grille, actually drives more like a traditional soft-riding luxury car. The Genesis is just the opposite.....not quite as aggression-looking, but it's more of a sports sedan, yet retains most of the K900's comfortable ride.
10-27-14, 03:42 PM
#247
Lexus Fanatic
10-27-14, 03:47 PM
#248
Not quite 50%... 9105 through September 2013, and 5976 through September 2014, but yeah not good. Azera is mostly just a bonus product for the U.S. market though. It's primarily for the Korean Domestic Market. Hyundai America has said they're aware the Azera is pinched a bit between the new upward reaching Sonata and the new Genesis sedan.
10-27-14, 04:15 PM
#249
Lexus Fanatic
I just looked at September which was down 50% from Sept 2013.
10-27-14, 05:01 PM
#250
Lexus Fanatic
The Azera's problem is that, never being very popular in the American market to start with, it now also has to compete against its own direct corporate brother...the Kia Cadanza. And the Cadenza, in several ways, IMO, is a better FWD upmarket sedan.
10-27-14, 05:03 PM
#251
Lexus Fanatic
Not quite 50%... 9105 through September 2013, and 5976 through September 2014, but yeah not good. Azera is mostly just a bonus product for the U.S. market though. It's primarily for the Korean Domestic Market. Hyundai America has said they're aware the Azera is pinched a bit between the new upward reaching Sonata and the new Genesis sedan.
True, but the Azera is now also pinched by an additional corporate brother...the Kia Cadenza (see my last post just above).
10-27-14, 05:20 PM
#252
Lexus Fanatic
I agree 100%, I've seen a fair number of Cadenzas around too.
10-29-14, 01:28 PM
#253
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the exact same arguments were made by mercedes fans when lexus was launched. granted toyota made a HUGE splash by spending a fortune (and getting dealers to invest fortunes) to create a new brand and marketing campaign. it worked but the german brands in particular fought back like they were fighting for their lives (which they were) and have essentially blown past lexus in model scope and sophistication. lexus is still a luxury brand, but it is still a notch behind several other brands now. having said that, of course the hyundai/kia dual brands are nowhere close in terms of luxury branding / reputation and didn't spend billions like lexus on r&d and marketing to create a new brand. many will say this is why they can't succeed, but the market situation is VERY different from the late 80's. today you can buy a toyota camry that is vastly more sophisticated than a mercedes s class was back then. it may even have better leather and materials too.
but yes, for SOME buyers (particularly of high end sedans), "status" and "brand" and "badges" are important. they've NEVER been important to me and many others though.
that analogy doesn't work as the iphone was a) the FIRST truly usable and useful touchscreen phone, and b) even today it has a unique user experience and very high touch quality about it that sets it apart even if some other phones can brag about bigger screens or more 'widgets'.
$60K gets you a reasonably loaded GS. it doesn't get you that far in the german brands.
but then again, most luxury cars are leased anyway so price is less important.
your grand cherokee is jeep's 'luxury' vehicle, but most would probably not see it as a luxury vehicle based on the brand and badge. we both know your jeep is excellent and luxurious though!
the exact same arguments were made by mercedes fans when lexus was launched. granted toyota made a HUGE splash by spending a fortune (and getting dealers to invest fortunes) to create a new brand and marketing campaign. it worked but the german brands in particular fought back like they were fighting for their lives (which they were) and have essentially blown past lexus in model scope and sophistication. lexus is still a luxury brand, but it is still a notch behind several other brands now. having said that, of course the hyundai/kia dual brands are nowhere close in terms of luxury branding / reputation and didn't spend billions like lexus on r&d and marketing to create a new brand. many will say this is why they can't succeed, but the market situation is VERY different from the late 80's. today you can buy a toyota camry that is vastly more sophisticated than a mercedes s class was back then. it may even have better leather and materials too.
but yes, for SOME buyers (particularly of high end sedans), "status" and "brand" and "badges" are important. they've NEVER been important to me and many others though.
that analogy doesn't work as the iphone was a) the FIRST truly usable and useful touchscreen phone, and b) even today it has a unique user experience and very high touch quality about it that sets it apart even if some other phones can brag about bigger screens or more 'widgets'.
$60K gets you a reasonably loaded GS. it doesn't get you that far in the german brands.
but then again, most luxury cars are leased anyway so price is less important.your grand cherokee is jeep's 'luxury' vehicle, but most would probably not see it as a luxury vehicle based on the brand and badge.
we both know your jeep is excellent and luxurious though!As for MB/BMW? I feel that the general perception is obviously slightly higher but the gap is not wide enough to matter that much. I drive a Lexus IS 350 F Sport and my brother drives a BMW 335I. Most of our friends view them in the same tier of 'prestige'. Both are viewed as 'expensive sporty rides'.
Lexus's new direction have proven to be a huge hit(as sales will indicate and reviews as well). Me and two of my friends all come from Mercedes/BMW because Lexus have changed their direction. I don't know how it's going with the older age bracket, but among the young people in Southern Cali areas, the new 'FSPORT/GRILLE/FLASHY' mentality of Lexus is a big success. The only reason I went with the IS 350 F sport over the BMW is because of looks. I know that sounds a bit pathetic to the car forums since most of you know so much more about cars than the average consumer. But the average consumer does go with looks a lot.
As for the Hyundai/Kia situation, I feel like they will be better off with a luxury Brand. That being said, the Hyundai at least is definitely getting noticed(Genesis). My Dad and his friends were actually comparing the Genesis to Mercedes/Lexus......... Obviously none of them went with the Hyundai and decided to stick to their LS and E350 instead.......but the very fact that they talked about the Genesis means that Hyundai is doing something right.
Still, I believe that it just wouldn't work without a 'luxury logo'. The creation of a Luxury Brand is something new and exciting. In a time like this, it will attract the younger generation like crazy. A big part of the reason the 3 IS Line up sold so well is because of the buzz(positive and negative) surrounding it. I don't know if Hyundai or Kia have the resources to pull off a Lexus though.....
01-21-15, 06:04 AM
#254
2015 Kia K900 Adds Premium Trim, Priced From $55,400
Kia has made some quick changes to its K900 luxury sedan in hopes of capturing more of the market.
The Korean automaker has added a base-level Premium trim that will be priced from $55,400 including destination and equips the K900 with HID headlights instead of the LED units found on the Luxury trim, plated 19-inch wheels instead of chromed pieces, 14-speaker sound system instead of a 17-speaker system and the seats are finished in standard leather rather than Nappa leather. The Kia K900 will remain powered by a 5.0-liter V8 with 420 hp and mated to an eight-speed automatic transmission.
The Kia K900 Luxury will be priced at $5,000 more than the Premium model and can be had with the optional VIP Plus Package which boasts an $8,000 price tag and adds surround view monitor, Advanced Smart Cruise Control (ASCC), a head-up display and a full meter display with 12.3-inch LCD screen. The VIP Plus Package also outfits the K900’s interior with quilted Nappa leather seats in Tuscan Brown or Indigo Blue.
The Korean automaker has added a base-level Premium trim that will be priced from $55,400 including destination and equips the K900 with HID headlights instead of the LED units found on the Luxury trim, plated 19-inch wheels instead of chromed pieces, 14-speaker sound system instead of a 17-speaker system and the seats are finished in standard leather rather than Nappa leather. The Kia K900 will remain powered by a 5.0-liter V8 with 420 hp and mated to an eight-speed automatic transmission.
The Kia K900 Luxury will be priced at $5,000 more than the Premium model and can be had with the optional VIP Plus Package which boasts an $8,000 price tag and adds surround view monitor, Advanced Smart Cruise Control (ASCC), a head-up display and a full meter display with 12.3-inch LCD screen. The VIP Plus Package also outfits the K900’s interior with quilted Nappa leather seats in Tuscan Brown or Indigo Blue.
01-28-15, 01:32 PM
#255
A repeat of the above post, but this show the real reason of the new base trim is due to slow sales number:
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/01/28/k...op-slow-sales/
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/01/28/k...op-slow-sales/