Toyota's biggest problem: Aging lineup
01-11-11, 09:17 AM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Agreed. My family had a 2002 Camry up until 2009. I used to rent the side apartment of my parents house and would occasionally take their car if it was blocking mine in the driveway (especially at night).
There was definitely a time where I took that car for granted but the luxury-car smooth ride was so welcome over the potholes where I lived. For a 4 cyl., that engine was surprisingly refined too. I would definitely consider one in the future.
Michael
There was definitely a time where I took that car for granted but the luxury-car smooth ride was so welcome over the potholes where I lived. For a 4 cyl., that engine was surprisingly refined too. I would definitely consider one in the future.
Michael
01-11-11, 10:40 AM
#19
Keep in mind that the Avalon was just "redesigned" so God only knows how long we will be looking at a car that essentially debuted in 2005. We heard all sorts of criticism about the Corolla being delayed because it was "too bland" in comparison to the Civic, and yet when the car debuted, you had to squint to see the differences between it an the 2003 model. Camry is one that is very attractive IMO. I'd say it's the best looking car in it's class overall.
Rav4 is about to be redesigned, Highlander was refreshed and looks great, 4Runner is brand new, Sequoia needs a new look, LC is only 2 years old and just like the Corolla, takes a trained eye to see the differences between it and the previous model.
Tacoma is about to be redesigned and the Tundra isn't far either. Sienna is brand new.
All that said, I think people are actually caring less about design and more about things like MPG, technology, gadgets, innovation and goodies. Not to say that design doesn't matter, but Toyota has fallen behind in terms of engineering prowess. The lackluster AZ engine and 4AT aren't winning them any kudos from entry level buyers, especially when the competition is using 6ATs or CVTs. Highlander still uses a 5AT as does the brand new 4Runner, etc. etc.
My point is that while design is one area where they need improvement, there are still plenty of others.
Rav4 is about to be redesigned, Highlander was refreshed and looks great, 4Runner is brand new, Sequoia needs a new look, LC is only 2 years old and just like the Corolla, takes a trained eye to see the differences between it and the previous model.
Tacoma is about to be redesigned and the Tundra isn't far either. Sienna is brand new.
All that said, I think people are actually caring less about design and more about things like MPG, technology, gadgets, innovation and goodies. Not to say that design doesn't matter, but Toyota has fallen behind in terms of engineering prowess. The lackluster AZ engine and 4AT aren't winning them any kudos from entry level buyers, especially when the competition is using 6ATs or CVTs. Highlander still uses a 5AT as does the brand new 4Runner, etc. etc.
My point is that while design is one area where they need improvement, there are still plenty of others.
01-11-11, 11:06 AM
#20
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^^^ To your point I think a lot of it has to do with the competition waking the **** up. It used to be Toyota or Honda is the best in each class with Nissan in there here and there. Today Ford, GM, Hyundai, Kia are now best in class in some cases or at least very interesting to consumers.
It is no longer default Toyota/Honda is the best and while Honda has its ugly head up its ugly *** Toyota seems to have gotten the memo.
I look forward to see if they turn things up a notch. A successful Toyota means a successful Lexus.
It is no longer default Toyota/Honda is the best and while Honda has its ugly head up its ugly *** Toyota seems to have gotten the memo.
I look forward to see if they turn things up a notch. A successful Toyota means a successful Lexus.
01-11-11, 12:32 PM
#21
^^^ To your point I think a lot of it has to do with the competition waking the **** up. It used to be Toyota or Honda is the best in each class with Nissan in there here and there. Today Ford, GM, Hyundai, Kia are now best in class in some cases or at least very interesting to consumers.
It is no longer default Toyota/Honda is the best and while Honda has its ugly head up its ugly *** Toyota seems to have gotten the memo.
I look forward to see if they turn things up a notch. A successful Toyota means a successful Lexus.
It is no longer default Toyota/Honda is the best and while Honda has its ugly head up its ugly *** Toyota seems to have gotten the memo.
I look forward to see if they turn things up a notch. A successful Toyota means a successful Lexus.
01-11-11, 01:05 PM
#22
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I've always biched about this.
sheet metal is cheap. you can mold it any way you want. Add some creases and contours. some style.
The camry is in a unique position. It is a car which has a pretty good reputation, and just happens to be the Mediocrity benchmark in terms of appearance.
Even if toyota spiced up the camry, it would still be #1 in sales. Spicing it up will not turn people away.
people don't buy the camry because it looks a certain way. They buy it because it's cheap, and has a pretty spotless reputation. That unintended accleration garbage doesn't count.
sheet metal is cheap. you can mold it any way you want. Add some creases and contours. some style.
The camry is in a unique position. It is a car which has a pretty good reputation, and just happens to be the Mediocrity benchmark in terms of appearance.
Even if toyota spiced up the camry, it would still be #1 in sales. Spicing it up will not turn people away.
people don't buy the camry because it looks a certain way. They buy it because it's cheap, and has a pretty spotless reputation. That unintended accleration garbage doesn't count.
You should come to my area and meet all the people I know that bought the Camry because for the looks
. The reputation and specs certainly helped, but I know plenty of people who refused to buy the competition based on styling. If the competition has polarizing and offensive styling and the Camry does not, then yes many people will definitely buy the Camry for the inoffensive looks.I don't think that argument flies. Toyotas are not that popular in Europe and they still look bland. They're not ugly, you just wish they had spent a bit more time and money on design to make a truly disireable product. I can't think of any Toyota that would buy based on looks. I think their challenge is going to come from Hyundai and Kia, they are really putting the effort and resources in and it's starting to bear fruit. 5 and 7 year warranties and a recognition of quality at least as good as Toyota's help as well.
Hyundai's long-term quality is now recognized to be equal to Toyota in Europe? That's news to me.
Keep in mind that the Avalon was just "redesigned" so God only knows how long we will be looking at a car that essentially debuted in 2005. We heard all sorts of criticism about the Corolla being delayed because it was "too bland" in comparison to the Civic, and yet when the car debuted, you had to squint to see the differences between it an the 2003 model. Camry is one that is very attractive IMO. I'd say it's the best looking car in it's class overall.
Rav4 is about to be redesigned, Highlander was refreshed and looks great, 4Runner is brand new, Sequoia needs a new look, LC is only 2 years old and just like the Corolla, takes a trained eye to see the differences between it and the previous model.
Tacoma is about to be redesigned and the Tundra isn't far either. Sienna is brand new.
All that said, I think people are actually caring less about design and more about things like MPG, technology, gadgets, innovation and goodies. Not to say that design doesn't matter, but Toyota has fallen behind in terms of engineering prowess. The lackluster AZ engine and 4AT aren't winning them any kudos from entry level buyers, especially when the competition is using 6ATs or CVTs. Highlander still uses a 5AT as does the brand new 4Runner, etc. etc.
My point is that while design is one area where they need improvement, there are still plenty of others.
Rav4 is about to be redesigned, Highlander was refreshed and looks great, 4Runner is brand new, Sequoia needs a new look, LC is only 2 years old and just like the Corolla, takes a trained eye to see the differences between it and the previous model.
Tacoma is about to be redesigned and the Tundra isn't far either. Sienna is brand new.
All that said, I think people are actually caring less about design and more about things like MPG, technology, gadgets, innovation and goodies. Not to say that design doesn't matter, but Toyota has fallen behind in terms of engineering prowess. The lackluster AZ engine and 4AT aren't winning them any kudos from entry level buyers, especially when the competition is using 6ATs or CVTs. Highlander still uses a 5AT as does the brand new 4Runner, etc. etc.
My point is that while design is one area where they need improvement, there are still plenty of others.
Oh and just to let you know, the Camry during it's mid-cycle update received the AR 4 cylinder engine and the 6-speed auto as standard.
The AZ engine is almost completely gone from the US Toyota lineup. Only the Matrix and Camry hybrid remain equipped with the AZ engine.
01-11-11, 01:38 PM
#24
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How is the redesigned 4Runner fairing?
I remember a little over a decade ago, that SUV was regarded as a status symbol. I always wanted one. Of the few that friends had, they are all on the road from the late 90s and still ride like they're right out of the showroom.
Granted I haven't driven the latest redesign, but something is off. It looks significantly cheaper in it's assembly and choice of plastics. I could very well be wrong, but it looks like it's been heavily influenced by the FJ Cruiser.
Although I've always thought I'd be in a 4Runner, I'm more likely to replace my aging Ford Explorer with another Ford product these days. The Jeep Grand Cherokee is also enticing, but it has a lot to prove in the way of reliability before I would own one.
Michael
I remember a little over a decade ago, that SUV was regarded as a status symbol. I always wanted one. Of the few that friends had, they are all on the road from the late 90s and still ride like they're right out of the showroom.
Granted I haven't driven the latest redesign, but something is off. It looks significantly cheaper in it's assembly and choice of plastics. I could very well be wrong, but it looks like it's been heavily influenced by the FJ Cruiser.
Although I've always thought I'd be in a 4Runner, I'm more likely to replace my aging Ford Explorer with another Ford product these days. The Jeep Grand Cherokee is also enticing, but it has a lot to prove in the way of reliability before I would own one.
Michael
01-11-11, 01:49 PM
#27
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I don't agree with most part of the article. Toyota vehicles still lead in the reliability department. They provide the most user friendly, reliable, and comfortable vehicles. And I think the stylings of most Toyotas and Lexus' are at least good looking, if not exciting. Conservative styling are accepted by most people, that's why they sell. Hyundai Sonata has a non-conversative styling, but they might not catch Camry's sales number even after two more generations. Ford Taurus lost its sales title since a radical change in styling, still remember that oval looking car? There are reasons why Camry and Corolla are so popular in this country, and I don't think radical changes are necessary.
01-11-11, 03:49 PM
#29