dj.ctwatt

Yes, you're right about the Focus. . . I was thinking of the Fiesta, but I forgot it's in a class below the tC, or I'd think it is?

spwolf

also mmarshal - terms "perceived quality" and "well-finished" are two different terms. What you are talking about is perceived quality (soft plastics, etc)... Finish means how everything is screwed together.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

wonder how this tc compares to a kia forte? i've seen a bunch of the latter on the road and think it's a really sharp small car.

mmarshall

True, but the firct tC's interior, IMO, was notably better then this one. But there's no question that this one is a better sport-coupe.


Overall, it's not a bad deal for the money. But I'd be strongly tempted, for several reasons, to take the Honda Civic coupe instead.

Yes, those wheels are designed for not-so-slim legs. The actual concept is not new, as VW and Audi have used that style wheel for some years now, on their sportier models, for the same reason....big, heavy Americans.

What's golden about BMW steering wheels is not necessarily the wheel itself, but the superb power-steering linkage/boost that it operates.


Not that I remember. I did some other Impreza/Outback-Sport versions.

mmarshall

Actually you have it more-or-less backwards. "Fit" (besides the entry-level Honda car) , refers to how well the interior parts match, fit together, and are screwed/bolted/installed in place. "'Finish", for the purpose we are using the term, means how pleasing those those parts look to the human eye. It also, of course, refers to things like exterior paint smoothness/gloss, quality/look of the trim, etc...

I agree, though, that some of this is subjective.

Lexus, IMO used to be the King marque, among mass-produced vehicles, when it came to fit/finish. Jaguar had stunning-looking interiors, but they were not as well-assembled. Today, it is more complex, and not-so-easy to give the award. A number of companies, today (including Lexus), share it in different ways. Among entry/level and moderately-priced cars today, Honda, Hyundai/Kia, and Ford are all up there.....with Honda, IMO, probably the best in how well the overall vehcle is assembled.

mmarshall

I've reviewed the Forte sedan, but not the Koup (coupe) model that would compare more to the tC, although the coupe's interior trim doesn't seem that much different from the sedan's. The tC feels like it has better, stronger body sheet metal. The Forte's interior, visually, is more or less like the tC's...(a lot of monotone black), but the Forte seems to use much better plastics.

On the road, the tC is definitely sportier and better-handling than the Forte sedan....again, I haven't tried the Forte Koup. The tC seems to have more torque. The tC, though, also seems noisier, especially with its loud road noise, though the Forte isn't exactly quiet. Still, the difference in road noise level is noticeable....but, to compensate, the Forte seems to have a louder engine (engine noise seems to be an issue wih several small Kias). The Forte rides a little softer than the tC (expected, of course, on the sedan), but doesn't handle as sharply, though both ride and handling are stiffer than the old Kia Spectra that the Forte replaces. Both cars have decent paint jobs....Toyota products, of course, being known for well-done paint jobs. I also like the underhood-layouts of both vehicles, with both allowing easy-access to most underhood components (as is the case with most lower-line and entry-level vehicles)

mmarshall

You can't really compare either one directly against the tC...both are four-doors and different types of small cars. And even though the Fiesta is (probably) marketed more against the Scion xD and Toyota Yaris than the tC, you can pay as much for a loaded top-line Fiesta (19K+) as for a stock tC, without options....such as the tC I reviewed.

spwolf

Well... Civic coupe with similar equipment is 3k more expensive, it has 1.8l engine with 40hp less, a lot less torque, and 5 speed AT compared to 6AT in tC. It also has moonroof instead of panoramic roof, and 16" wheels instead of 17" wheels.

tC is a lot better value overall. Plus it is easier to customize which is the whole point of Scion.

mmarshall

Yes, I agree that the tC's (new) drivetrain has more spunk than even the Civic Si, handles well, has tank-solid bodywork, and an endless supply of custom-order parts. But there is also a reason why the Civic costs what it does, and, compared to the tC, you will find it in the interior quality/materials, butter-slick controls, paint job, and Swiss-Watch-precision assembly. The Civic, of course, in its four-door versions, also offers Hybrid and, for West-Coast buyers, Natural-Gas (GX) versions, which are not offered (yet) at Scion.

ArmyofOne

Mike,

You know how much I respect you, we go a long ways back. So I am going to throw this out there for you in hopes you might be able to use it...constructive criticism, if you will: Many of today's cars are geared toward the younger market. Us ol' fogeys like soft seats, and quiet interiors. We dont like to fall into our cars but rather get into them, etc. We dont want to have it be a chore to drive, but rather a pleasure.

I agree with the points made about customizations, but lets look at it from a history standpoint. Toyota and other companies like it know their stuff. They cut those things for a reason. Just playing devil's advocate here, I really truly agree with you, I HATE cheap looking interiors and road noise. 2 of my biggest pet peeve's ever.

They took pix of this cars interior. When they do that, they TRY to make them look good. It was an epic fail here. Again Mike, no disrespect, but alot of times car makers do things for a reason. Personally I think they took it too far this time LOL.