Lexus ES 240 to be built for Chinese markets only

[encore888]

Originally Posted by Koma

I was talking about the 2.5 4cyl 2AR-FE engine not the 2.5 V6 3GR engine. The 2.5 AR engine isn't direct injected, it's a better motor and mated with a 6 speed auto or manual.

Ah, interesting, and goes to your point that the 2.4L isn't used in the U.S. Camry either. A ES 250 does sound better.

[pbm317]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

LEXUS ES240.....pathetic!

Day by day Lexus is becoming a cheaper brand.

Toyota really needs to divorce the ES/Camry and move the ES to a dedicated platform...

There's no problem with proper platform sharing. A dedicated FWD platform? Never going to happen when they have a very versatile platform already available. There is little to no business case to warrant a new platform entirely for the ES. The customers who buy the ES like it, and that's all that matters. Do the enthusiast mindset folks that make up the majority of forum members like it? No, but again, that's not the target demographic.

From what I've heard Toyota's new line of 4 cylinders mated to the 6 speed automatic is very impressive.

[1SICKLEX]

China is a different market. They also get long wheelbase 5 series and A6's. .

[TripleL]

I think its a good idea, especially for that market.

I remember another thread here in CL asking the question why can't we have an LS350 right here in the US.

Prop's to Lexus for seeing an opportunity and seizing it!

[DustinV]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

LEXUS ES240.....pathetic!

What's so pathetic about this? They're adjusting to the market and the current situation. Lexus should have done this earlier and more proactively in other markets from day one on.

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Day by day Lexus is becoming a cheaper brand.

A smaller, weaker engine does not indicate "cheapening". There are many people who want a luxury car because of the features but don't need excessive power. The ES240 sounds like it will be a decent performing and smooth machine. That's all that matters.

If you can afford or want more power then you should buy an ES350. Very simple, right?

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Toyota really needs to divorce the ES/Camry and move the ES to a dedicated platform...

I wonder why platform-sharing is always viewed so negatively? Companies have to keep production and development costs in check. As far as I know the Camry platform is good enough to be used for the ES. Big deal.

Where I think Lexus needs to distance themselves from Toyota is in the design department. Their SUVs (with the exception of the new RX) and their latest sedans scream "Toyota" in terms of design.

[ST430]

Originally Posted by felixsc300

Because the Chinese are too cheap for a ES350/V6.

Um, by 2010, there will be more folks in China with a median income of 200K+ USD then the entire population of the US.

Now, why the discrepancy in price? Because the Chinese government heavily taxes imported cars into China and also bases it on engine size. A comparable $20K Camry here would cost around $35K there. On top of that you have huge "licensing fees" that can get anywhere from $1000 to $10K for each vehicle, depending on the city you live in China.

For those ignorant folks that say Lexus is diluting themselves, keep in mind that in China a 5 series BMW and E Class Benz can be had with a 4 banger.....

Food for thought....

[blacksc400]

They have A6 1.8T and 520I

[Threxx]

Originally Posted by ST430

Um, by 2010, there will be more folks in China with a median income of 200K+ USD then the entire population of the US.

You don't count a total number of people that exceed a 'median income'... median is the middle of a group. Maybe you meant household income?

Aside from that, that means 25% of the population of China would have household incomes over 200k. 100% BS.

Maybe you meant to say that there will be more households in China with 200k+ USD incomes than there are households in the US with 200k+ USD incomes?

If so I can believe that simply because they have 4 times as many people as we have and are booming economically... during booms like that, somebody out there has to be making a killing.

Last I heard, though, China's median income is still something like 1/8th of the US's and in some regards their cost of living is higher, too (like 70k dollar ES350s)

[I8ABMR]

I dont think the rest of the world feel they need to get to 60 in under 7 seconds. The extra 2-3 seconds doesnt bother them. I have a feeling if we were paying the same prices for gas as the europeans we wouldnt either

[encore888]

Perhaps this ES variant will be out in time with the refresh...

[mikez]

Originally Posted by Threxx

You don't count a total number of people that exceed a 'median income'... median is the middle of a group. Maybe you meant household income?

Aside from that, that means 25% of the population of China would have household incomes over 200k. 100% BS.

Maybe you meant to say that there will be more households in China with 200k+ USD incomes than there are households in the US with 200k+ USD incomes?

If so I can believe that simply because they have 4 times as many people as we have and are booming economically... during booms like that, somebody out there has to be making a killing.

Last I heard, though, China's median income is still something like 1/8th of the US's and in some regards their cost of living is higher, too (like 70k dollar ES350s)

Believe it or not, most city dwellers in China are quite well off. I just had some family friends over and they purchased over 2k worth of Coach bags, Swarsoki (sp) crystal necklaces and other crap in one day, they said it was 1/3 of the price here compare to China lol.

We also had lunch in DC where it was 9 dollars for a "personal" pizza, like the size of my ceral bowl and they said it was so cheap too...

I think a lot of people posting here have no knowledge on China and is making a lot of ignorant remarks. The ES is not being diluted, China is not ***** poor and can only afford a 4 banger variant, its always been this way in the Chinese market. When I moved out of China in 96' an Merc E200 was on sale in China for 300k USD (pre Hong Kong emancipation) and people bought those up, I don't see anyone in the US buying E classes for 300k USD

[1SICKLEX]

GEt used to Lexus offering more 4 cylinders in more cars. The future is small in all markets.

[Threxx]

Originally Posted by mikez

Believe it or not, most city dwellers in China are quite well off. I just had some family friends over and they purchased over 2k worth of Coach bags, Swarsoki (sp) crystal necklaces and other crap in one day, they said it was 1/3 of the price here compare to China lol.

We also had lunch in DC where it was 9 dollars for a "personal" pizza, like the size of my ceral bowl and they said it was so cheap too...

I think a lot of people posting here have no knowledge on China and is making a lot of ignorant remarks. The ES is not being diluted, China is not ***** poor and can only afford a 4 banger variant, its always been this way in the Chinese market. When I moved out of China in 96' an Merc E200 was on sale in China for 300k USD (pre Hong Kong emancipation) and people bought those up, I don't see anyone in the US buying E classes for 300k USD

Do you have any numbers/links to support this? I just looked up the average income for a person living in Beijing and it was under $5000 US dollars 2 years ago, and that was also reported by the STATE media, and you know if anything they're going to be boosting figures to make themselves look better.
http://english.sina.com/china/1/2007/0327/107816.html

[Gojirra99]

Originally Posted by Threxx

Do you have any numbers/links to support this? I just looked up the average income for a person living in Beijing and it was under $5000 US dollars 2 years ago, and that was also reported by the STATE media, and you know if anything they're going to be boosting figures to make themselves look better.
http://english.sina.com/china/1/2007/0327/107816.html

There is quite a big gap between the rich and the poor in China, but there is enough rich people there to make it a big market for luxury cars, look at the sales thread, 1SICK posted some info on car sales in China, and cars are more expensive there than in the U.S. ...

[mikez]

Originally Posted by Threxx

Do you have any numbers/links to support this? I just looked up the average income for a person living in Beijing and it was under $5000 US dollars 2 years ago, and that was also reported by the STATE media, and you know if anything they're going to be boosting figures to make themselves look better.
http://english.sina.com/china/1/2007/0327/107816.html

All I can say is to look at the press release by Rolls Royce and Ferrari and Lamborghini, and how they state the overall sales are not effected much by the global down turn as the growing market in Middle east and China covers the shrinking markets of the America and Europe. When I was in China the a few months before the Olympics there was an ungodly amount of Porsche and Ferrari's in Beijing and Canton, much like what you see in LA, and knowing how some cars price can be jacked up 100% due to tariffs, you know there are filthy rich folks there.

Its hard to convince you because all you ask for is links and numbers and news articles, I am Chinese and all my relatives are in China and the way it is in reality is always different than how the news portrays it you know that. I get my sources from my relatives who live there and not from the news, you don't have to believe me, but I am merely trying to offer an actual insider's point of view, as oppose to other speculators here comparing China's market to America's.

Like someone else said, the gap between rich and poor is mighty, as a matter of fact, to reduce car usage in the city, they started doing days where even number, or odd number license plates are allowed on the road. But that did not help because the majority who can afford cars in China, bought another car with another set of license plate to use on the alternate days.

And as far back as I remember, China's market always get saturated with low end cars, low end models, that sells for more than the higher end models in the USA. In fact, outside of China, I have never seen the Volkswagon Sontana (Passat here) but its basically the low end version with the smallest displacement engines, all made in China. Same with the Audi 100 - made in China, and the E class 200's etc.

Also to offer an possible explaination of you saying China's average income is so low. China's riches are concentrated in the Cities, and so are the rich people, and car sales. When my parent's went to China for business last month, they went to Shanghai and said it was amazing, better than any USA city. Then they went to a so called 3rd tier city (not by coastal areas, not touched by modern developement), and my parent said that place reminds them of Canto almost 30 years ago, full of bicycles, people in sandals and straw hats, dirty old buses with no AC etc.

Last but not least, to give you an insight, in China housing and car is expensive, much more so than USA. But a lot of government jobs, or large companies, provides company vehicles, and also packages where after x amount of years, the loaner apartment provided to you will be yours. Thus no mortgage, no car payments. In China, clothing, entertainment and food is ungodly cheap, you have no idea lol. 100 USD will get you a 5 people feast at some fancy Chinese restaurant