ff_

Don't they (any automobile rag) subject most every car to tests that reveal its handling abilities? It's a relevant, real-world test, regardless of the vehicle.

Part of a car's abilities is how well it holds the road at speed, how well it tracks in a straight line, and how well it inspires confidence in the corners. And I don't mean how fast it can take a cloverleaf onramp. If I'm navigating a corner, and the car is listing so bad that I need to start looking for a patch of grass to spin out on, then I'm going to make a negative comment on the handling abilities, no matter how much I might like a soft, fluffy ride.

Even though the 7 series is a flagship luxury car, it still inspires great confidence on the roadways. If the LS is going to claim to compete with the 7 Series, then it needs to asipre to meet the same goals within reasonable bounds.

MSMLexIS

Edmunds.com is very biased in a comparison Test of entry level sport sedan the 2001 IS300 fully loaded was knocked for not being luxurious but the BMW 330i that had manually adj vinyl seats was not BMW didnt even have a CD changer that shows you how unfair they are. However the good news is Lexus knows the market better than anyone else and this car will sell.

ff_

Maybe they just liked the 330i better?

Also, Lexus knows the market better than anyone else?

CHIS350

It's kind of funny how they trash the styling of the BMW 7 series but say the Lexus is not spicy enough.

It certainly doesn't have the "wow!" look of the new S, but it also doesn't have the "what?!" look of the 7 (that's a good thing!)

I am actually kind of glad they didn't talk about price, though. Lexus does not want to be the "value" luxury brand anymore, they want to be the best. Overall I think the S is the best car in this class (probably the finest machine I have ever driven), but due to reliability and interior I would go for the LS if I was in this market.

ff_

Actually, it's my opinion that they want to be the best, and the best value. They'd alienate a lot of people (myself included) if they decided to stop providing the best value, and raise their prices to German levels, right across the board.

IS350jet

NEWSFLASH! It's not just Edmunds, ALL of the mags do this. If it can't handle like a 3, it's inferior.

ff_

True automotive enthusiasts (journalists obviously included) tend to prefer cars that reward the driver with feedback. Such as good driving dynamics, stability/road-worthiness, and a good sense of what the tires are doing in relation to the pavment (i.e. "feel"). The LS provides none of those things. You step out of the LS after a drive, and say to yourself "man, that's a nice stereo", and that's about it.

Some people like that, and that's fine. But don't get upset when an auto enthusiast rates the car, and finds it unremarkable.

MSMLexIS

What i meant to say is that every Lexus that they bash it ends up being a bigger success than they predict. Lexus knows its customer better than anyone else.

Mr. Jones

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=117189

14.2 @ 100.7

the upside, the power boost is accompanied by class-leading fuel mileage ratings of 19 city/27 highway. We recorded a best of 25 mpg out of three tanks of fuel.


and we left the test track impressed. Its 0.82g skid pad and 63-mph slalom number are average at best


S-class
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...8/pageId=68239
14.2 @ 101
tested mpg
15.6
slalom
63.9
skidpad
0.83

Mr. Jones

this is partly Lexus fault for not sending the Touring model w/upgraded aluminum caliper brakes, and 19in wheels.

Most of the review is subjective, objectively:

The LS460 rides smoother than its main competitor (Sclass)
costs as much as an E550, but is built twice as nice
uses superior interior materials (wood, leather)

Overall I am very happy with the LS460, I bet the LS600Lh costs as much as the S550, phenomenal value.

Threxx

It's very understandable why car magazines are so hard on Lexus. Lexus makes great practical, comfortable, luxurious, and reliable cars, but they do NOT make exciting cars.

I mean yes they have some more exciting cars than others in their lineup, but almost... heck, not almost, EVERY one of their models, when compared to the most directly competing models from Europe and sometimes American and Japan, ends up being unspiring and boring because it doesn't have enough feedback in terms of suspension response and taughtness, steering feel, noise from the engine and road, etc. These are CAR ENTHUSIAST MAGAZINES were are talking about - and while many of us here may be enthusiasts who are enthusiastic about ultra quality precision made luxury cars - the fact of life is that the overwhelming majority of car enthusiasts, including the people who write for the magazines, as well as those who READ the magazines, don't care as much about luxury, comfort, and practicality, as they do the pure sport and soul of driving.

With that said, Lexus is purposely aiming in a direction that they KNOW will **** off the typical enthusiast. But can you blame them? For every one sale they lose to an enthusiast, they get 2 more from somebody who doesn't read car magazines, doesn't dream about road racing, and just wants a comfortable reliable premium brand car to drive around.

They're doing what has made them the #1 selling brand in america... which is exactly the opposite of what car magazines rightfully tend to get excited about. What magazines will they excite with their cars? Consumer reports, consumer guide - all of the practical 'buyers guide' magazines that the average joe reads for practical purchasing advise.

Lexus may try to build some sportier models over the next decade or so to truely try to compete with the Euros, without giving up their luxury models. You might have noticed GM's Cadillac is getting much sportier with its newer model releases (just wait until you see the CTS a year from now.... it's incredible!), and at the same time the new Buick models that are about to be released are going WAY upscale and obviously aimed at Lexus. In fact their Lucerne and Lacrosse were aimed at Lexus but fell laughably short in my opinion. Their new Buick Enclave SUV truely looks amazingly nice, though, and may be the beginning of a new era for Buick, Cadillac, and GM as a whole.

As technology improves - such as semi-active and active dynamic suspension systems, you will start to see sporty cars like BMW be capable of being more comfortable whilst staying just as sporty... and you'll see lux cars like Lexus be capable of being more sporty, whilst staying comfortable. But for now the world is full of compromises... one car cannot be all things to all people. So for now let the sales numbers speak for which design model got the average consumer the most interested.

XeroK00L

That the fragile little sportscar minds of the car magazine editors do not have the capacity to take on a car this refined and with this much finesse. 'Nuff said.

XeroK00L

LOL @ 10mpg real-world difference. And you forgot to mention that Edmunds tested the S550 with 0-60 in 6.1 secs while they did the LS460 in 5.8 secs. Edmunds should get their facts straight before passing on some judgmental adjectives.

XeroK00L

BTW, has anybody read the stereo evaluation? ANOTHER PERFECT SCORE OF 10.0 for the Mark Levinson!!!

I'm still very mad that the Taste of Lexus @ San Francisco didn't offer me a chance to experience the system by not putting the demo LS460L in accessory mode. Wish I can try it out at the dealership soon.

Stereo Evaluation

System Score: 10.0

Components: Our test car was equipped with the optional Mark Levinson Reference Surround Sound audio system. Even in the top-of-the-line LS 460 L, the Mark Levinson audio system is an option and adds about $2,500 to the price. In the standard LS 460 the price jumps by more than double because the audio system comes paired with a navigation system.

Expensive as it is, the system offers some impressive hardware. There are 19 speakers, including three-way speakers in each front door and each rear door, and center-channel speakers mounted in the front and rear of the car. The front center channel even has a 1-inch titanium dome tweeter; the same setup is used for the rear surround channels mounted in the rear seating area. Rear-seat passengers are treated to a 9-inch video screen and up front there's a six-disc CD/DVD changer.

The heart of the system is an all-new Mark Levinson amplifier that's fully discrete and delivers 450 watts of power through 15 channels. The system also delivers discrete 5.1 surround sound through 7.1 surround architecture and can handle a variety of formats including a normal stereo CD, CD-R, DVD video, DVD-A, Dolby Digital 5.1, DTS 5.1, MP3 and WMA, and has an auxiliary jack for connecting hand-held MP3 players. There's also an 8 GB hard drive for storing music ripped right from your CDs. Bluetooth and XM radio are part of the navigation package as well.

Performance: Stunning. This is easily one of the best, most robust factory-installed car audio systems on the market, if not the best — only the Panasonic ELS system found in a few Acuras and the Mercedes-Benz S-Class' Harman Kardon systems rival it.

Sound reproduction is almost flawless even as the volume climbs. In fact, total harmonic distortion is listed as 0.1 percent with all channels driven. In simple terms, the sound is pure, clean and lacks the distortion found on many in-car systems (including many luxury-branded vehicles).

The Lexus system's bass is deep, warm and slightly punchy, and overall tone tends toward bright, but in the end it only adds to the phenomenal clarity and brilliance. Obviously, music or movies from true 5.1 discs sound incredible, but two-channel CDs sound great as well because even stereo sources are given the surround treatment thanks to the amplifier's DSP capabilities.

The interface for using this complex and sophisticated system is surprisingly easy and intuitive. There are plenty of European luxury brands that could learn a thing or two from Lexus about making an in-car entertainment system easy to use without compromising features or quality.

Storing music in the car's hard drive is a perfect example of how technology can make life easier rather than more complicated. When it's in the "auto" setting, every CD you insert will automatically be ripped to the car's hard drive. The only drawback here is that CDs you made yourself (i.e. iTunes) will have to be manually named but most prerecorded discs come with the artist's name, song title and album title. Then you can arrange, edit and sort by any of those criteria, including genre. You can even choose the recording quality of the stored tracks, but Lexus says you can store 2,000 songs without specifying quality.

Worst Feature: Price.

Best Feature: Excellent sound quality, usable features, intuitive controls.

Conclusion: The Mark Levinson Reference Surround Sound system is the industry standard for in-car audio. It has just the right combination of features, dynamic sound quality, clarity and ease of use to make it the front-runner in an emerging sea of next-generation premium car audio systems. — Brian Moody

newr

You know better than that. They can not be directly compared unless they were both subjected to the same test on the same day with same driving style and distance.