It started snowing here in DC early this morning but really didn't start to stick until this evening. I thought this would be an opportunity to test out The AWD GS300 and the GS430 with VDIM and see how they fared. We have about 5 inches on the ground now and the streets are slick. Here goes....

I pushed the start button on our Matador Red AWD with Mark Lev. etc. Our back lot which slopes away was mostly empty except for a few service cars. I drove the GS300 slowly in circles until I felt where the traction started to break. The 17" all season run flats had good pull up the hill when going straight. It was very responsive to the throttle. When I took a u turn the rear would swing out like a RWD car. At low speeds the VSC didn't really kick in. After getting a feel for it I drove out on the road and as long as I didn't make a sudden throttle change or hard turn it was very stable. It had a little oversteer drift but it was totally manageable. When I got on it and took a turn the VSC would kick in to bring me back in line but in a fairly wide arc. I was trying to test the limits which a normal driver might not do in the snow....

I dusted the snow off our Black GS430 with 18" runflat all seasons. We have these orange foam squeegee things on broom handles that are made for removing snow. I took it to the back lot and tried the same circles that I had just made tracks with the AWD. I found that I actually had much more control in the turns than the AWD! It would automatically slow me down so I coudn't over accelerate. I tried a few straight up the hill runs. It proceeded slowly up the hill with no wheelspin. I had it floored but it wouldn't listen to my bad advice. Then I took it out on the street. It stayed under control when I pulled out and I forgot for a second that I was in the RWD. I accelerated up the Rockville Pike and the only thing I noticed was the VDIM amber light blinking. I felt the slightest waiver but that was it. I was cruising on the crust with abandon. VDIM is the bomb! I could get used to this and I'm glad my GS owners will not get into trouble with the steering in the snow. The car was unshakable and if I took a turn a little too fast it just started chiming and corrected itself. The arc was smaller and straighter. The only thing it couldn't do as well as the AWD was going straight up hill. The AWD had faster acceleration for this reason. Now if I only had a set of studded tires I think I could take the AWD on. I am definitely a believer now... In VDIM we trust.

THAT'S GOOD NEWS, THANKS

Wow that is a great review and surely of interest to those in snow having areas.

It's funny, I live in Philadelphia and it snows here, I wouldn't say too much, but a lot during the winter. I always hear that FWD cars are so much safer in snow than RWD cars and I understand the reasoning behind it, but there are tons of RWD cars on the road here while it's snowing, so they can't be THAT BAD, right!?!

thanks for the AWD testing!
Im not far from rockville 40 minutes or so and yes the snow was fun today:)
Im glad the gs430 performed so well.. I was thinking of awd 300 BUT now
thanks to rockville, he might of sold me on the 430 and since I will buy from him
when time comes.. We will both be happy :thumbup:

It started snowing here in DC early this morning but really didn't start to stick until this evening. I thought this would be an opportunity to test out The AWD GS300 and the GS430 with VDIM and see how they fared. We have about 5 inches on the ground now and the streets are slick. Here goes....

I pushed the start button on our Matador Red AWD with Mark Lev. etc. Our back lot which slopes away was mostly empty except for a few service cars. I drove the GS300 slowly in circles until I felt where the traction started to break. The 17" all season run flats had good pull up the hill when going straight. It was very responsive to the throttle. When I took a u turn the rear would swing out like a RWD car. At low speeds the VSC didn't really kick in. After getting a feel for it I drove out on the road and as long as I didn't make a sudden throttle change or hard turn it was very stable. It had a little oversteer drift but it was totally manageable. When I got on it and took a turn the VSC would kick in to bring me back in line but in a fairly wide arc. I was trying to test the limits which a normal driver might not do in the snow....

I dusted the snow off our Black GS430 with 18" runflat all seasons. We have these orange foam squeegee things on broom handles that are made for removing snow. I took it to the back lot and tried the same circles that I had just made tracks with the AWD. I found that I actually had much more control in the turns than the AWD! It would automatically slow me down so I coudn't over accelerate. I tried a few straight up the hill runs. It proceeded slowly up the hill with no wheelspin. I had it floored but it wouldn't listen to my bad advice. Then I took it out on the street. It stayed under control when I pulled out and I forgot for a second that I was in the RWD. I accelerated up the Rockville Pike and the only thing I noticed was the VDIM amber light blinking. I felt the slightest waiver but that was it. I was cruising on the crust with abandon. VDIM is the bomb! I could get used to this and I'm glad my GS owners will not get into trouble with the steering in the snow. The car was unshakable and if I took a turn a little too fast it just started chiming and corrected itself. The arc was smaller and straighter. The only thing it couldn't do as well as the AWD was going straight up hill. The AWD had faster acceleration for this reason. Now if I only had a set of studded tires I think I could take the AWD on. I am definitely a believer now... In VDIM we trust.

Hmmmm. :uh:

So you conclude:

1) VDIM is more controlable than AWD w/ VSC in average driving in slippery and adverse conditions.
2) VDIM vs. VSC was more of a factor in control than AWD vs. RWD
3) AWD w/ VSC was better at climbing in snowy condition
4) VDIM is better than AWD in the snow overall

Do these sound in line with what you found? If not, correct me. :D

In NJ, stuff like that is the difference between getting home alive and getting well-acquainted with the interior overnight in some remote parking lot (maybe a little overexaggerated :p )
http://www.clublexus.com/gallery/data/508/32722IMG_0241-med.JPG

Thanks and Nice post! :thumbup: :thumbup:

By nature VDIM should be better in all handing and braking aspects regardless of AWD or RWD. Think about it... AWD vs RWD only comes into play when there is throttle involved. With steering and braking you still have 4 tires, 2 wheel steering, and 4-wheel braking regardless. Except with VDIM you have a better management system.

Now with accelerating I'm pretty the AWD should win regardless... even with the smartest computer management system in the world in a RWD car. 4 wheel drive is hard to be taken down by 2WD unless the 4WD has no traction control at all and a dumb driver behind the wheel.:D

After I made that post I took an '05 GX470 out on the lot to see how it took the turns as it has a 40%/60% rear wheel power bias and it was very similar to the GS300 AWD. The GS 300 AWD has a 30%/70% rear wheel devotion of power. I will predict that the new RX400h with VDIM will do much better in the snow than the RX330 with VSC. VDIM takes over during extreme situations. On the GS430 no matter how poorly I steered and stomped on the gas it never got flustered or lost control. I can imagine some of my more challenged customers being saved by the VDIM. The AWD GS got much more traction and acceleration coming out of the hole so that is why I believe it would win a wager in say an eighth of a mile straight line. When taking turns the VDIM will do whatever is needed to maintain overall stability and will cut speed as a precaution. The AWD will let you take it a little farther before it decides enough is enough and intervenes. I didn't attempt any left foot braking techniques as I am quite rusty at them. With a little practice the AWD would make a fun rally car. I try to visit Bend, Oregon each year to go skiing with my friend Tom Hamilton. He is a ski instructor and ex rally driver and the drive up to Mt. Bachelor with him in his Audi 5000 Quattro is almost as fun as the skiing. Last year unfortunately after having some work done at the local Audi dealer it caught fire in front of his house! I would like Tom to drive the GS300 AWD up the mountain with snow specific tires like he had on his Audi. Coming down the hill one day a snowmobile launched from the side of the road from a drift and hit a van full of skiers after a day on the slopes. You have to be ready for anything in the wilderness. Most AWD SUV's and cars have a tendency to understeer which is when you are headed straight at something while your wheel is turned. The SUV's will flip easily if they get back on dry pavement and very suddenly veer. The GS300 AWD feels more like a RWD car to me. The AWD definitely can take you up the steeps and the VDIM can keep you in check in the curves. These are both a lot of fun to take out in the Tundra. BTW on the way home a RWD pick up truck started swinging wildly back and forth in front of me and then headed over to the guardrail and slid along it until it came back on the road again and he just kept on driving! He's going to have some paintwork to do on that passenger side... Do I attract this stuff or what? Now if he'd had VDIM.......

great comparisons and a help to all of us. I'd guess you've got more snow in MD then in Bend this year. My wife was up at Timberline on Mt. Hood today and 45deg., not much snow there.

Rockville,

On the GS430 w/VDIM, do you notice any difference in the abruptness of the traction control cutting power? My 2000 GS400 (even my GX470 will do this, not as bad though) would abruptly cut power when traction was lost making it very slow to accelerate. I wondered if the VDIM computer helps the traction control system as well.

In my mind, there's no reason power cannot be dynamically reduced to the slipping rear wheel and then again quickly released when traction has returned. We need faster responses from the traction control CU.

Any of you guys use snow tires? For example Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50. There is huge diffrence in grip compared to all-season tires, even with AWD.

Very interesting ... looks like the GS430 is not in desperate need of AWD after all. I guess the only complaint about VDIM is that it stops you from pushing the car to it's limits ... and it can't be turned off, as far as I know. But of course, you can always get the GS300 AWD for more fun driving :p. I guess the ability to turn off VDIM would be icing on the cake ;) .

VDIM totally makes sense ... Lexus is not trying to follow the Germans ... Lexus is going along it's own path ... and setting it's own standards. Toyota wants Lexus cars to minimize all the bad and dangerous aspects of driving while maximizing everything else. VDIM has gotten Toyota one step closer to that ideal. No doubt VDIM is a very advanced system that's safer than any German system, including Quattro, or Mercedes VSC.

With all this sophisticated technology how would someone know if something isn't working correctly? Now I'm not talking about the radio, that would be obvious that it wasn't working. But say a part of the VDIM, how would you really know if something was wrong or not working correctly, would you have to wait until you get into an accident? Anyone ever think that cars are becoming too advanced? I don't know maybe this doesn't make sense. :egads:

Good point on knowing if something's wrong. I always say I can't be too paranoid. Of course if I really worry it should probably be about that tire to road patch; 6-10 square inches of contact just looking to lose it on a bit of sand or oil on the road. Exciting :D

I get more concerned about what happens to all that electronics 10 years from now.

I guess the only complaint about VDIM is that it stops you from pushing the car to it's limitsActually, quite the contrary. VDIM is intended to allow you to push the car to its limits at all times, limit being the boundary in which the car can perform without losing stability though.

Your complaint should be that the VDIM stops you from pushing the car beyond its limits.;)

With all this sophisticated technology how would someone know if something isn't working correctly? Now I'm not talking about the radio, that would be obvious that it wasn't working. But say a part of the VDIM, how would you really know if something was wrong or not working correctly, would you have to wait until you get into an accident? Anyone ever think that cars are becoming too advanced? I don't know maybe this doesn't make sense. :egads:

Electronics can be much easier to detect for faults than mechanical equipment. Most sensors should have certain readings under normal conditions.

When you turn your key on, all of those indicator lights are telling you the testing electronics is working. If VDIM doesn't test out correctly after you start the vehicle, the light would remain on and perhaps during those conditions, other systems like ABS only would take over.

As I said, it's a lot easier when electronics are involved because many routines can be written to bypass, and redundant mechanical systems are connected together electronically.

Rockville,

On the GS430 w/VDIM, do you notice any difference in the abruptness of the traction control cutting power? My 2000 GS400 (even my GX470 will do this, not as bad though) would abruptly cut power when traction was lost making it very slow to accelerate. I wondered if the VDIM computer helps the traction control system as well.

In my mind, there's no reason power cannot be dynamically reduced to the slipping rear wheel and then again quickly released when traction has returned. We need faster responses from the traction control CU.

Our dealership is on a busy six lane divided road that the posted speed is a joke. If you make a right turn on red you will have trucks and cars bearing down on you at 50MPH plus. The traction control can kick on and the power will "sag" and you are left holding the bag helplessly. The VDIM won't even let the wheel spin much if traction is a problem. It is snowing right now and I'm going to wait for it to stick and try out the VDIM some more. It is addictive. It reacts early and smoothly to abrupt inputs whether throttle or steering. I think it is an equivalent safety advance as ABS which freed us from pumping our brakes manually. You don't get that out of control feeling in slick conditions that we did on the Gen. 2 GS430. This is all while comparing a 17" wheel on the Gen.2 with an 18" std. run flat on the Gen. 3. Put some studs on it and it would be fun to drive on a frozen lake....

But say a part of the VDIM, how would you really know if something was wrong or not working correctly, would you have to wait until you get into an accident? . :egads:

The warning light would come on if the VDIM or any electronic system is having problems. Just relax and drive :D

Any of you guys use snow tires? For example Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50. There is huge diffrence in grip compared to all-season tires, even with AWD.
Itsuki, you are so right about the dramatic difference a snow specific tire will make. The IS300 with snow tires did better than the 325X in the snow slalom test! It is an expensive and time consuming task to break down your tires and remount snows and rebalance times 4. An easier way is to invest in a separate set of rims and you can go down a size and taller for your snow specific tires. Then you just swap them like a pit stop. Some dealers will store them over the winter/summer for you if you buy your tires/wheels from them. That makes the job much easier. If you live in the snowbelt it is worth the extra effort to winterize your treads for safety and handling.

Our dealership is on a busy six lane divided road that the posted speed is a joke. If you make a right turn on red you will have trucks and cars bearing down on you at 50MPH plus. The traction control can kick on and the power will "sag" and you are left holding the bag helplessly. The VDIM won't even let the wheel spin much if traction is a problem. It is snowing right now and I'm going to wait for it to stick and try out the VDIM some more. It is addictive. It reacts early and smoothly to abrupt inputs whether throttle or steering. I think is an equivalent safety advance as ABS which freed us from pumping our brakes manually. You don't get that out of control feeling in slick conditions that we did on the Gen. 2 GS430. This is all while comparing a 17" wheel on the Gen.2 with an 18" std. run flat on the Gen. 3. Put some studs on it and it would be fun to drive on a frozen lake....

Very good to hear! :thumbup:

Actually, quite the contrary. VDIM is intended to allow you to push the car to its limits at all times, limit being the boundary in which the car can perform without losing stability though.

Your complaint should be that the VDIM stops you from pushing the car beyond its limits.;)

As far as I know ... VDIM has more to do with safet that "limits". The limit I was referring to actually was driving limits. If you're a very experienced driver, VDIM will actually prevent you from pushing the car to the absolute limit .... for example ... VDIM brakes when it feels it is needed ... even if you want to push the car further. A car's limit itself is very high ... and you won't reach a car's limit unless you're practically a professional driver. But of course, hypothetically speaking, a pro driver would be bogged down by VDIM since he would be very in tune with the car's limits ... and would not need such a complex preventive safety system such as VDIM.

I'm pretty sure VDIM was designed for average drivers and experienced drivers alike to drive safely under any conditions.

If Lexus does go through with their performance arm, I wonder if they will take off electronic aids like VDIM to allow for more spirited driving :uh: , kind of what BMW does with their M cars.

The flakes were coming down in bigger and bigger sizes. I decided it was time the take the Batmobile out of the cave one more time. I volunteered to take some mail to our Audi store down the Pike. On the way back I detoured to the local High School parking lot. It had about 3 inches of fresh pow and I decided to make fresh tracks. I delicately turned onto the lot and felt under complete control as I entered the widest section of the lot. I drove toward the end and made a full lock left turn. The GS430 turned like a figure skater and suddenly I found myself traveling the other direction. That was easy. I approached the other end and did it again and then kept it locked and I started tracing a tight 30 foot circle. It was actually a smaller circle than I could have made on dry pavement because whenever the GS was reluctant to finish the circle the VDIM would brake the rear wheels and tighten the arc. I started to get a little dizzy after a while. I let it make a few faster passes and just turned wherever and whenever I chose. For the finale I started tracing figure eights. They were nicely shaped and I almost wish there had been judges there to score them. If there had been enough space I could have signed my name at the bottom. I haven't had that much fun since doing handbrake turns in the snow with my Mini Cooper when I was a teenager. I turned off the traction control and went back for another pass and the rear wheels would spin whenever I gave it throttle but the VDIM still made the turns for me. Traction on and Traction Off the VDIM never leaves your side. On the way back I had to test the acceleration and I was taking off quickly at the Green lights and then braking and waiting for the traffic and taking off again etc. I could detect only the slightest wavering on steady acceleration but I was now used to the sensation. I turned back into the store and put her back into the cave for the night.

Thanks for the superb informative report Rockville. Great job! :thumbup:

Wow...sounds like VDIM is an even better solution than AWD as far as safety goes. As someone else pointed out, AWD is only useful for better traction when the throttle is applied, whereas VDIM helps not only with traction but with steering and braking as well. This technology is just groundbreaking, totally awesome. :thumbup:

The flakes were coming down in bigger and bigger sizes. I decided it was time the take the Batmobile out of the cave one more time. I volunteered to take some mail to our Audi store down the Pike. On the way back I detoured to the local High School parking lot. It had about 3 inches of fresh pow and I decided to make fresh tracks. I delicately turned onto the lot and felt under complete control as I entered the widest section of the lot. I drove toward the end and made a full lock left turn. The GS430 turned like a figure skater and suddenly I found myself traveling the other direction. That was easy. I approached the other end and did it again and then kept it locked and I started tracing a tight 30 foot circle. It was actually a smaller circle than I could have made on dry pavement because whenever the GS was reluctant to finish the circle the VDIM would brake the rear wheels and tighten the arc. I started to get a little dizzy after a while. I let it make a few faster passes and just turned wherever and whenever I chose. For the finale I started tracing figure eights. They were nicely shaped and I almost wish there had been judges there to score them. If there had been enough space I could have signed my name at the bottom. I haven't had that much fun since doing handbrake turns in the snow with my Mini Cooper when I was a teenager. I turned off the traction control and went back for another pass and the rear wheels would spin whenever I gave it throttle but the VDIM still made the turns for me. Traction on and Traction Off the VDIM never leaves your side. On the way back I had to test the acceleration and I was taking off quickly at the Green lights and then braking and waiting for the traffic and taking off again etc. I could detect only the slightest wavering on steady acceleration but I was now used to the sensation. I turned back into the store and put her back into the cave for the night.

For my question: It seems like the Traction Control is much less abrupt then the 2nd generation. Is that a fair assessment?

I understand completely what you are describing. The "drive by wire" was interupted by the Trac and it stuttered. The new VDIM is so smooth you might not perceive its intervention except for the small amber car icon at the top of the instruments that has wavy tracks under it. VDIM rules.

I understand completely what you are describing. The "drive by wire" was interupted by the Trac and it stuttered. The new VDIM is so smooth you might not perceive its intervention except for the small amber car icon at the top of the instruments that has wavy tracks under it. VDIM rules.

Very nice. The smoothness of VDIM's management of the traction control contributes to better traction. It just makes sense. Everything is about momentum and if you abruptly cut the power from the engine and then give it back, your're not going anywhere.

Coolio. :thumbup:

Ok, funning thing happened while I was watching tv with my wife. I received a phone call. It was Rockville..."I'm outside your house, want to take the GS300 AWD out to see how it does in the snow?"... I didn't have to think about it, of course I replied....

At this point, the snow was still comming down, the ground had a few inches of snow, and the roads were beginning to ice up. I drove the car around the neighborhood and out to a local school parking lot. We tried the tight circle with the pedal down and no breaking, other than what the car did by itself to keep it from slipping. Absolutely amazing. Rockville is right, the control on the AWD is not an immediate kick in, it will let you get into more trouble before it helps you out. But, in all a great drive and if your not trying to go wild, it is extremely stable.

When you grow up with a lot of snow, as I did, the hard thing to remember during this kind of test drive is NOT to react. The point is to test the car, not yourself. I found myself trying to correct for sliding in the parking lot, and had to back off and let the car show me what it knew how to do.

An excellent experience.....it's so nice when someone knows what they are talking about, takes great pride in learning their product and the competition and in addition focuses on the customer and has fun while doing it all.

Ok, funning thing happened while I was watching tv with my wife. I received a phone call. It was Rockville..."I'm outside your house, want to take the GS300 AWD out to see how it does in the snow?"... I didn't have to think about it, of course I replied....

At this point, the snow was still comming down, the ground had a few inches of snow, and the roads were beginning to ice up. I drove the car around the neighborhood and out to a local school parking lot. We tried the tight circle with the pedal down and no breaking, other than what the car did by itself to keep it from slipping. Absolutely amazing. Rockville is right, the control on the AWD is not an immediate kick in, it will let you get into more trouble before it helps you out. But, in all a great drive and if your not trying to go wild, it is extremely stable.

When you grow up with a lot of snow, as I did, the hard thing to remember during this kind of test drive is NOT to react. The point is to test the car, not yourself. I found myself trying to correct for sliding in the parking lot, and had to back off and let the car show me what it knew how to do.

An excellent experience.....it's so nice when someone knows what they are talking about, takes great pride in learning their product and the competition and in addition focuses on the customer and has fun while doing it all.


Great story :thumbup: