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What will last longer? A 1989 Toyota Truck or a 1989 Lexus LS400
dad's old celica had the same engine and 5 speed
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,521
Likes: 261
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Given equal care, in most cases, I'd bet on the LS.
Why? Basically, one big reason. 1980's-vintage Toyota trucks, to get around the 25% import-truck tariff in effect at that time, were shipped over on the boat from Japan with only the cab/frame/drivetain assemblies complete. The beds and tailgates were then welded on at the West Coast Toyota delivery warehouse. They used crappy, defective welds, which tended to rust, from the inside out, no matter how well you washed, cleaned, or took care of the truck. That is why virtually every 80's vintage Toyota truck shows the same rust-lines in the exact same places.....right around the bottom of the bed, where it attaches to the ladder-frame. Eventually the rust not only eats up the bed-attachment, but then attacks the frame itself. Then, the truck gradually becomes structually unsound and more and more unsafe to drive. The problem was not really solved until about 1990, with the lifting of the tariffs, and a new generation of Toyota trucks.
Why? Basically, one big reason. 1980's-vintage Toyota trucks, to get around the 25% import-truck tariff in effect at that time, were shipped over on the boat from Japan with only the cab/frame/drivetain assemblies complete. The beds and tailgates were then welded on at the West Coast Toyota delivery warehouse. They used crappy, defective welds, which tended to rust, from the inside out, no matter how well you washed, cleaned, or took care of the truck. That is why virtually every 80's vintage Toyota truck shows the same rust-lines in the exact same places.....right around the bottom of the bed, where it attaches to the ladder-frame. Eventually the rust not only eats up the bed-attachment, but then attacks the frame itself. Then, the truck gradually becomes structually unsound and more and more unsafe to drive. The problem was not really solved until about 1990, with the lifting of the tariffs, and a new generation of Toyota trucks.
Pole Position
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,365
Likes: 29
From: Florida
Frames can be fixed and in a worst case scenario, replaced entirely. Something you can't do on an LS.
Old LS's look much better than the old trucks because trucks are usually abused by people using it as a work truck or beater. LS's generally don't suffer this fate.
Also, a *HUGE* factor no one has mentioned yet in this thread: the aftermarket and junkyard parts availability.
The parts availability for trucks completely annihilates the offerings for an LS. From crate engines, to custom rear ends, suspension, body panels... These types of things are a catalog away from being on your truck. Not so much with the LS. You break one wrong "dealer only" part on the LS, and you might have just written it off.
So if by "last longer" you mean "keep running 100% with reasonable cost", then the truck takes it, no question. They are designed for abuse and easy repair.
Interesting thread.
Old LS's look much better than the old trucks because trucks are usually abused by people using it as a work truck or beater. LS's generally don't suffer this fate.
Also, a *HUGE* factor no one has mentioned yet in this thread: the aftermarket and junkyard parts availability.
The parts availability for trucks completely annihilates the offerings for an LS. From crate engines, to custom rear ends, suspension, body panels... These types of things are a catalog away from being on your truck. Not so much with the LS. You break one wrong "dealer only" part on the LS, and you might have just written it off.
So if by "last longer" you mean "keep running 100% with reasonable cost", then the truck takes it, no question. They are designed for abuse and easy repair.
Interesting thread.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,521
Likes: 261
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Old LS's look much better than the old trucks because trucks are usually abused by people using it as a work truck or beater. LS's generally don't suffer this fate.
Don't mistake what I'm saying here, though. I'm not saying that newer Toyota trucks are built to a poor standard......they most certainly are not, though the latest, post-2006 Tundra, admittedly, has not been impressive. But, unlike the LS, they are not considered a world-class standard.
Also, a *HUGE* factor no one has mentioned yet in this thread: the aftermarket and junkyard parts availability.
The parts availability for trucks completely annihilates the offerings for an LS. From crate engines, to custom rear ends, suspension, body panels... These types of things are a catalog away from being on your truck. Not so much with the LS. You break one wrong "dealer only" part on the LS, and you might have just written it off.
So if by "last longer" you mean "keep running 100% with reasonable cost", then the truck takes it, no question. They are designed for abuse and easy repair.
Interesting thread.
The parts availability for trucks completely annihilates the offerings for an LS. From crate engines, to custom rear ends, suspension, body panels... These types of things are a catalog away from being on your truck. Not so much with the LS. You break one wrong "dealer only" part on the LS, and you might have just written it off.
So if by "last longer" you mean "keep running 100% with reasonable cost", then the truck takes it, no question. They are designed for abuse and easy repair.
Interesting thread.
Last edited by mmarshall; Mar 18, 2010 at 09:17 PM.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,521
Likes: 261
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
This is what typically happens to 80s-vintage Toyota pickups. The rust starts out as a small brown line around the entire base of the bed, just about even with the top of the rear-wheel wells, then gets progressively worse and expands, until, eventually, this is what you end up with.
Of course, the wetter the climate, the more it snows, and the more road salt is used (or exposure to beach salt air), the faster the rust is going to expand. But the initial rust, from the crappy welds, actually starts from the inside out, regardless of climate or road conditons.
Last edited by mmarshall; Mar 18, 2010 at 09:28 PM.
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Lead Lap
Joined: Jan 2010
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From: San Antonio, TX
Given equal care, in most cases, I'd bet on the LS.
Why? Basically, one big reason. 1980's-vintage Toyota trucks, to get around the 25% import-truck tariff in effect at that time, were shipped over on the boat from Japan with only the cab/frame/drivetain assemblies complete. The beds and tailgates were then welded on at the West Coast Toyota delivery warehouse. They used crappy, defective welds, which tended to rust, from the inside out, no matter how well you washed, cleaned, or took care of the truck. That is why virtually every 80's vintage Toyota truck shows the same rust-lines in the exact same places.....right around the bottom of the bed, where it attaches to the ladder-frame. Eventually the rust not only eats up the bed-attachment, but then attacks the frame itself. Then, the truck gradually becomes structually unsound and more and more unsafe to drive. The problem was not really solved until about 1990, with the lifting of the tariffs, and a new generation of Toyota trucks.
Why? Basically, one big reason. 1980's-vintage Toyota trucks, to get around the 25% import-truck tariff in effect at that time, were shipped over on the boat from Japan with only the cab/frame/drivetain assemblies complete. The beds and tailgates were then welded on at the West Coast Toyota delivery warehouse. They used crappy, defective welds, which tended to rust, from the inside out, no matter how well you washed, cleaned, or took care of the truck. That is why virtually every 80's vintage Toyota truck shows the same rust-lines in the exact same places.....right around the bottom of the bed, where it attaches to the ladder-frame. Eventually the rust not only eats up the bed-attachment, but then attacks the frame itself. Then, the truck gradually becomes structually unsound and more and more unsafe to drive. The problem was not really solved until about 1990, with the lifting of the tariffs, and a new generation of Toyota trucks.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 916
Likes: 1
From: Europe
This is what typically happens to 80s-vintage Toyota pickups. The rust starts out as a small brown line around the entire base of the bed, just about even with the top of the rear-wheel wells, then gets progressively worse and expands, until, eventually, this is what you end up with.
Of course, the wetter the climate, the more it snows, and the more road salt is used (or exposure to beach salt air), the faster the rust is going to expand. But the initial rust, from the crappy welds, actually starts from the inside out, regardless of climate or road conditons.
Pole Position
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,365
Likes: 29
From: Florida
We all make valid points in each of our camps.
As for the pics posted, the rusted out truck is obviously an extreme example of a bad truck, and the LS is an extreme example of a good LS. Contrary to these pics, I see very clean, well-running pick ups on the road and some BEAT up LS's with no more leather left on the seats. The truck in the pic is obviously abused, and possibly even used for a pool cleaning business. The welding rust you describe doesn't explain the rusted out bumpers, and top of the tailgate. This is damage typically seen on pool guy trucks, where they spill corrosive hydrochloric acid on the truck every day for years. No truck, from any make can survive that type of punishment.
Also, as noted before, LS's live a much nicer life than pick up trucks do. So they will naturally age more gracefully. Ever seen a pool guy or contractor drive an LS? If there are any out there, it would be beat up and trashed, just like your typical work truck.
So I think the answer to the OP's question is, "It depends."
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,521
Likes: 261
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
As for the pics posted, the rusted out truck is obviously an extreme example of a bad truck, and the LS is an extreme example of a good LS. Contrary to these pics, I see very clean, well-running pick ups on the road and some BEAT up LS's with no more leather left on the seats. The truck in the pic is obviously abused, and possibly even used for a pool cleaning business.
The welding rust you describe doesn't explain the rusted out bumpers, and top of the tailgate. This is damage typically seen on pool guy trucks, where they spill corrosive hydrochloric acid on the truck every day for years. No truck, from any make can survive that type of punishment.
Also, as noted before, LS's live a much nicer life than pick up trucks do. So they will naturally age more gracefully. Ever seen a pool guy or contractor drive an LS? If there are any out there, it would be beat up and trashed, just like your typical work truck.
So I think the answer to the OP's question is, "It depends."
The welding rust you describe doesn't explain the rusted out bumpers, and top of the tailgate. This is damage typically seen on pool guy trucks, where they spill corrosive hydrochloric acid on the truck every day for years. No truck, from any make can survive that type of punishment.
Also, as noted before, LS's live a much nicer life than pick up trucks do. So they will naturally age more gracefully. Ever seen a pool guy or contractor drive an LS? If there are any out there, it would be beat up and trashed, just like your typical work truck.
So I think the answer to the OP's question is, "It depends."
While I partially agree with you, here's where I disagree: While some trucks, of course were worse than others, depending on use and environment, I have never seen a Toyota truck of that vintage without any rust in that area....it was always the same rust, starting on the exact same lines....no exceptions. The amount and extent, of course, as you suggest, was determined partly by exposure to moisture, salt, and acid....but it was ALWAYS there. The problem was not licked until about 1990 or so, with the relaxation of the import-truck tariffs, different methods of truck importation, and a redesign of the trucks themselves.
The welding rust you describe doesn't explain the rusted out bumpers, and top of the tailgate. This is damage typically seen on pool guy trucks, where they spill corrosive hydrochloric acid on the truck every day for years. No truck, from any make can survive that type of punishment.
Pole Position
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,365
Likes: 29
From: Florida
I did an Autotrader search within 500 miles of me in Miami and every result (with pics and non-converted commercial beds) came up with a clean bed. So maybe it's the salt they use in your area that's a contributing factor, but down here, our pickups are fine.
And some are pretty darn clean.
1985 Xtra Cab Pickup
Another example...
I wouldn't mind one of these at all!
Not bad for 25 years old.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,521
Likes: 261
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
In my area (VA/MD/DC) I've yet to see an 80's vintage that, driven regularly, did not develop the exact same rust pattern, in the exact same places...it is just a question of how much, and when it started. Perhaps, in this area, there is a rare rust-free example that was kept in a garage or museum most of the time, but, in my area, I've yet to see one.
In the Desert Southwest, where the climate is warm and arid, you might see more of them, but, in my area, they are extremely hard to find.
The main problem is that the corrosion started from the inside out, with crappy welds, so that, under normal circumstances, there was little you could do to prevent it, even with regular washing, underbody-flushings with a hose, and other cosmetic care.
And, it's a shame, too,
because the engine/transmissions on these vehicles were like iron, and, unlike the beds, would last forever. I had a co-worker, who had one, that, after a couple of hundered thousand miles, the drivetrain was still like the day it was built, but the bed and rear frame had tuned into Swiss Cheese, to the point where it had become unsafe to drive.
In the Desert Southwest, where the climate is warm and arid, you might see more of them, but, in my area, they are extremely hard to find.
The main problem is that the corrosion started from the inside out, with crappy welds, so that, under normal circumstances, there was little you could do to prevent it, even with regular washing, underbody-flushings with a hose, and other cosmetic care.
And, it's a shame, too,
because the engine/transmissions on these vehicles were like iron, and, unlike the beds, would last forever. I had a co-worker, who had one, that, after a couple of hundered thousand miles, the drivetrain was still like the day it was built, but the bed and rear frame had tuned into Swiss Cheese, to the point where it had become unsafe to drive.
Last edited by mmarshall; Mar 19, 2010 at 09:31 AM.