Engine cranking/startup noise (merged threads)
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 287
Likes: 2
From: GA
OKay guys I got some update on the problem. After I made that post on 11/29 I took my car to the dealership but they couldn't do anything about it because they couldn't replicate the noise. I found out the problem is because of low OIL level. I came to that conclusion because when I did my last oil change before I bring it to the dealership I only put 6 quarts in there. A week ago I started the car up after an oil change, the engine made some horrible metal hitting noise and disappear like 2 seconds after. The noise hasn't come back since then and it has been a week. So those of you who get that weird noise on the start up, check your oil level.
I have been getting this noise the past couple days as well. My last service at the dealership was for the 15K maintenence, about 3 weeks ago.
It only happens on the first start up of the day and after I get off of work, car sits for about 10 hours. I am not talking about the injectors.
This is a metal clanging sound. Will check oil level tomorrow, better yet, im going to try and get my camera to record the sound.
It only happens on the first start up of the day and after I get off of work, car sits for about 10 hours. I am not talking about the injectors.
This is a metal clanging sound. Will check oil level tomorrow, better yet, im going to try and get my camera to record the sound.
I'd bet a pretty sizeable amount of money on the hydraulic lifters - your description above is absolutely classic hydraulic lifter noise. the rocker arms are not mounted on a shaft of any kind, they're basically loose in the head and they pivot on the top of the hydraulic adjuster, so if there's any back draining at all, you're going to hear some clatter while they pump up. The "roller" rocker claim is because they have a needle bearing roller in the middle where the cam contacts the rocker instead of a simple hardened pad (as motorcycles have done for many years.) It's a damned shame they didn't just go with variable thickness buckets as they have with so many other Toyota engines. They NEVER make noise.
Which brings us back to the small number on the oil rating - 5w vs.10w. 5w will get to the top end faster than 10w on any given day.
Bichon - my closest dealer says the same thing - we're using 5w-30 period. They're ignoring the TSB. I won't have them change it again, I just took advantage of their 1 free change. I have noticed a mileage decrease over the same trip since my oil change. It's only 1 mpg, but it's still 1 less than before.
Which brings us back to the small number on the oil rating - 5w vs.10w. 5w will get to the top end faster than 10w on any given day.
Bichon - my closest dealer says the same thing - we're using 5w-30 period. They're ignoring the TSB. I won't have them change it again, I just took advantage of their 1 free change. I have noticed a mileage decrease over the same trip since my oil change. It's only 1 mpg, but it's still 1 less than before.
I took my IS350 to the dealership today for the 5000K service and they explained EXACTLY what "lobuxracer" is stating in his messages. The sound is normal in the IS350 models. They talked about the fuel pressure also and something about hydraulic and electric pumps...
I've had this noise since new. I don't post much in the forum, but I've been a memeber for a while and I'm always reading new posts.
I'll post as soon as I get my car back and see if they do anything about the sound.
I think your dealer is giving you the run around. There is something abnormal about the car. It may be the oil level is too low.
I really doubt Toyota/Lexus would roll out a brand new model that made clanking sounds when starting.
I really doubt Toyota/Lexus would roll out a brand new model that made clanking sounds when starting.
It's not hydraulic, it's a spring loaded rachet mechanism. There is no shortage of chains whipping around in there, but they've got slippers and dampers enough for a couple of bikes easy. If its the cam chains, there's something wrong. I'm still betting on the lifters sinking slightly and clattering until oil gets to the top end. Especially when the guy is running 10w instead of the recommended 5w.
Oh yeah, I'm very familiar with bikes and cam chain tensioning schemes for all kinds of cam chains. This engine has single row rollers with one long stretch across the two heads and two short ones between the cams in each head.
Oh yeah, I'm very familiar with bikes and cam chain tensioning schemes for all kinds of cam chains. This engine has single row rollers with one long stretch across the two heads and two short ones between the cams in each head.
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 287
Likes: 2
From: GA
Lobuxracer, can you elaborate a bit. Maybe put it in terms my feeble mind can understand ???
Would a low oil level, combined with what you're saying contribute to the noise we're hearing? Going on another week now since my oil change and haven't heard it since before the oil change. There's something to this.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 2
From: Hurricane Capital Of The World
Very interesting. I changed my oil this past weekend (Royal Purple 5W30). Of course as everyone knows oil and filter change requires 6.7 qts. I decided to add a little bit more (just under 7 quarts).... lo and behold, it appears that the sound is gone. I think this is the key. Either the dealership didn't put enough oil in (which is not unbelievable) or my car has been burning more oil than I like to imagine on break-in (I'm at 12.5K right now). I was reading the manual the other day and I was quite surprised at how much oil the engine can burn and still be within the normal operating parameters. Anyway, this is my experience for what it's worth.
Don't believe the dealership saying that the noise is normal, why some car has it and some car don't? Mine started to do it when I only put 6q of oil and it stop since I put more. Those of you with the problem should give it a shot, it doesn't take much effort to add a little more oil in there.
Driver
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 120
Likes: 9
From: Panama
Cracking noise at startup
To me it doesnt happen in the mornings. only during the day after using the car if i let it rest for a few hours (like 4 i guess at that point oil is already at the bottom but its still warm or less dense that when cold in the mornings)
I have been able to fix it by adding more oil, but the problem is that oil level apears to be above that maximun on the oil dipstick. May that be a problem?
I did oil change 1 month ago and the dealer only used 5.5 qtrs, i understand that we should use 6.7, but using 5.5 the dipstick showed to be in the max of oil allowed.
Thanks
JP
I have been able to fix it by adding more oil, but the problem is that oil level apears to be above that maximun on the oil dipstick. May that be a problem?
I did oil change 1 month ago and the dealer only used 5.5 qtrs, i understand that we should use 6.7, but using 5.5 the dipstick showed to be in the max of oil allowed.
Thanks
JP
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Lexus Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,680
Likes: 8
From: Oregon
FWIW,
I'm getting a lot less noise less frequently with less oil. When I changed the oil at 10K, I put in about 6.6 qts, which showed to be right on the max notch.
I drained enough to where it's showing right in between the min and max notches.
I think I can here it every now and then but it's never been the unmistakable tap, tap, tap, that I was getting before.
Also, the noise seems to be more frequent I'm parked on a slight incline.
I'm not worried about this issue any longer as I've notified my service advisor and he said it's normal.
I'm getting a lot less noise less frequently with less oil. When I changed the oil at 10K, I put in about 6.6 qts, which showed to be right on the max notch.
I drained enough to where it's showing right in between the min and max notches.
I think I can here it every now and then but it's never been the unmistakable tap, tap, tap, that I was getting before.
Also, the noise seems to be more frequent I'm parked on a slight incline.
I'm not worried about this issue any longer as I've notified my service advisor and he said it's normal.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,680
Likes: 8
From: Oregon
Update
The noise has been getting much more frequent. It's happening on almost every start up now and even if the car has been sitting for just an hour or so.
I have a message into my SA and I'll let y'all know what he says. Whether there is wear/damage to my engine or not, the noise is actually very annoying and embarassing.
I'll probably go to the 5w20 on the next change though and see if that makes a difference.
I have a message into my SA and I'll let y'all know what he says. Whether there is wear/damage to my engine or not, the noise is actually very annoying and embarassing.
I'll probably go to the 5w20 on the next change though and see if that makes a difference.
Rookie
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: NC
The noise has been getting much more frequent. It's happening on almost every start up now and even if the car has been sitting for just an hour or so.
I have a message into my SA and I'll let y'all know what he says. Whether there is wear/damage to my engine or not, the noise is actually very annoying and embarassing.
I'll probably go to the 5w20 on the next change though and see if that makes a difference.
I have a message into my SA and I'll let y'all know what he says. Whether there is wear/damage to my engine or not, the noise is actually very annoying and embarassing.
I'll probably go to the 5w20 on the next change though and see if that makes a difference.
anyone with new updates on this? I'm running full syn motul 5w30 and it's starts once in a while during cold start up. im gonna check the dip stick tommrrow (stupid strut bar is in the way) but is the oil level the main problem?
Advanced
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 651
Likes: 3
From: Ontario
I had this happen to me a couple times and it sounds just like a well worn timing chain, worn and leaking tensioner like those on a late model Mazda or Mitsubshi four cylinder engine on start up. This is so old school you would think Toyota would have made a better design by now. I haven't had it now for a long time but I know exactally what you guys are describing and lobux is correct now. Low oil pressure at start up, insufficient chain tension, causing the chain to "wip", once oil pressure is up and proper tension restored,....it's quiet. This happens within seconds.
The timing chain is probably rubbing on the chain slipper and damper.
If I had to move my car on the driveway to let someone out, it would do it on the next start! So now I just go for a five minute drive if I have to move it.
No more noisey timing chain clatter. The dealer changes my oil and they probably use 5w30 dino, I'll check to see what they use next time I go for service.
The timing chain is probably rubbing on the chain slipper and damper.
If I had to move my car on the driveway to let someone out, it would do it on the next start! So now I just go for a five minute drive if I have to move it.
No more noisey timing chain clatter. The dealer changes my oil and they probably use 5w30 dino, I'll check to see what they use next time I go for service.
Last edited by clubfoot; Apr 6, 2007 at 09:50 AM.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 2
From: Hurricane Capital Of The World
I had this happen to me a couple times and it sounds just like a well worn timing chain, worn and leaking tensioner like those on a late model Mazda or Mitsubshi four cylinder engine on start up. This is so old school you would think Toyota would have made a better design by now. I haven't had it now for a long time but I know exactally what you guys are describing and lobux is correct now. Low oil pressure at start up, insufficient chain tension, causing the chain to "wip", once oil pressure is up and proper tension restored,....it's quiet. This happens within seconds.
The timing chain is probably rubbing on the chain slipper and damper.
If I had to move my car on the driveway to let someone out, it would do it on the next start! So now I just go for a five minute drive if I have to move it.
No more noisey timing chain clatter. The dealer changes my oil and they probably use 5w30 dino, I'll check to see what they use next time I go for service.
The timing chain is probably rubbing on the chain slipper and damper.
If I had to move my car on the driveway to let someone out, it would do it on the next start! So now I just go for a five minute drive if I have to move it.
No more noisey timing chain clatter. The dealer changes my oil and they probably use 5w30 dino, I'll check to see what they use next time I go for service.