Car or Tires?: 06 GS430 ADVAN A10B tires Cupping Pics
03-21-09, 04:58 PM
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Car or Tires?: 06 GS430 ADVAN A10B tires Cupping Pics
Car or Tires?: 06 GS430 ADVAN A10B tires Cupping Pics
I have a 2006 GS430 with Yokohama ADVAN A10B tires. This is the second set. The first set was replaced by the dealer @ 10k miles because of radial pull. The second set started making the truck tire sound around 5k miles and is now unbearable with about (15k strike out) 24k miles. The front tires have 7/32” and back have 5/32” of the original 10/32” of tread. The tires are cupping bad mostly on the very inside of the tires. I had a tire place look at the tires and first they said they had to take the tires off the car to see what was going on, then said bad struts would cause this or lack of rotation. Tires are rotated at 5k miles except this last time when I was so ticked at the tires. Then later said the belts are separating. They say Yokohama will prorate the tires. There have been numerous reports of these tires sounding like truck tires from GS owners. Tire experts, please take a look and tell me if the problem is the tires or the car. From my research, it looked like the alignment part that would cause this is not adjustable??
Thanks
I have a 2006 GS430 with Yokohama ADVAN A10B tires. This is the second set. The first set was replaced by the dealer @ 10k miles because of radial pull. The second set started making the truck tire sound around 5k miles and is now unbearable with about (15k strike out) 24k miles. The front tires have 7/32” and back have 5/32” of the original 10/32” of tread. The tires are cupping bad mostly on the very inside of the tires. I had a tire place look at the tires and first they said they had to take the tires off the car to see what was going on, then said bad struts would cause this or lack of rotation. Tires are rotated at 5k miles except this last time when I was so ticked at the tires. Then later said the belts are separating. They say Yokohama will prorate the tires. There have been numerous reports of these tires sounding like truck tires from GS owners. Tire experts, please take a look and tell me if the problem is the tires or the car. From my research, it looked like the alignment part that would cause this is not adjustable??
Thanks
Last edited by GS2006; 03-23-09 at 08:51 AM.
03-22-09, 06:27 AM
#2
It's hard to say for sure - I'd need a little better angle from a little farther away (bottom picture, but a little more distance) to tell for sure, but what you probably have is an alignment issue that is destroying the tires...
cupping (which is responsible for making the noise) is caused by lack of rotation, bad struts/shocks, or an alignment issue... certain tire designs are more susceptible to cupping than others... I would say that that style tire is more susceptible than most...
what concerns me is the last picture, which does look like early stages of a tire separation... if it is localized and looks like that in only one area of the tire, then it is a separation, however if it looks like that all the way around, it's an alignment wear issue... here also, some tires fare better with certain alignment specs...
Personally, I would have the alignment checked, and try a different set of tires...
cupping (which is responsible for making the noise) is caused by lack of rotation, bad struts/shocks, or an alignment issue... certain tire designs are more susceptible to cupping than others... I would say that that style tire is more susceptible than most...
what concerns me is the last picture, which does look like early stages of a tire separation... if it is localized and looks like that in only one area of the tire, then it is a separation, however if it looks like that all the way around, it's an alignment wear issue... here also, some tires fare better with certain alignment specs...
Personally, I would have the alignment checked, and try a different set of tires...
03-22-09, 06:24 PM
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It's hard to say for sure - I'd need a little better angle from a little farther away (bottom picture, but a little more distance) to tell for sure, but what you probably have is an alignment issue that is destroying the tires...
cupping (which is responsible for making the noise) is caused by lack of rotation, bad struts/shocks, or an alignment issue... certain tire designs are more susceptible to cupping than others... I would say that that style tire is more susceptible than most...
what concerns me is the last picture, which does look like early stages of a tire separation... if it is localized and looks like that in only one area of the tire, then it is a separation, however if it looks like that all the way around, it's an alignment wear issue... here also, some tires fare better with certain alignment specs...
Personally, I would have the alignment checked, and try a different set of tires...
cupping (which is responsible for making the noise) is caused by lack of rotation, bad struts/shocks, or an alignment issue... certain tire designs are more susceptible to cupping than others... I would say that that style tire is more susceptible than most...
what concerns me is the last picture, which does look like early stages of a tire separation... if it is localized and looks like that in only one area of the tire, then it is a separation, however if it looks like that all the way around, it's an alignment wear issue... here also, some tires fare better with certain alignment specs...
Personally, I would have the alignment checked, and try a different set of tires...
All the tires are doing the same thing and they have only been rotated from front to back.
The wear is not exactly the same all the way around. In some place it dips more than other places but all the cupping/wear is on the outer half of the most inner tread.
I got out one of my external flashes to try and get the shadow to show the cupping in more detail.
I do not see how a 60k car with only 30k miles can have bad struts or other on both sides. Is this possible? I’ve seen alignments wear on the inside smooth or jagged but starts further inside wearing deeper to edge, but not cupped like this. Very confusing to me. Thanks for you help
Passenger side front tire:
tires. Drive side front tire:
Notice the chunks of rubber missing. I noticed this in various places on all tires. Notice the different color on every other tread section on the most inner tread line. Every other one is warn down differently but every other two are warn the same.
Passenger rear tire:
03-22-09, 06:40 PM
#4
Definitely an alignment thing...
what it appears that has happened is that the alignment is out, the tire obviously doesn't respond well to being out of align and then the tires appear to be coming apart due to the alignment issue...
if they'll pro rate them, I'd get whatever you can out of them and get them replaced with something else... then I'd make sure the alignment was as close as possible to the exact spec... then, I'd recommend rotating every 5k miles, but make sure you cross rotate per the owners manual... most all vehicle manufacturers recommend cross rotating the non-drive tires to the opposite axle and then straight rotating the drive tires to the opposite axle...
to avoid this, tires without the large treadblocks on the inside edge helps, also asymmetrical tires tend to help, though it will depend more on the tread design than anything, however, you can't cross rotate directional tires without breaking them down and flipping them on the wheels, so asymmetrical or non-directional tires are a lot better in that scenario...
what it appears that has happened is that the alignment is out, the tire obviously doesn't respond well to being out of align and then the tires appear to be coming apart due to the alignment issue...
if they'll pro rate them, I'd get whatever you can out of them and get them replaced with something else... then I'd make sure the alignment was as close as possible to the exact spec... then, I'd recommend rotating every 5k miles, but make sure you cross rotate per the owners manual... most all vehicle manufacturers recommend cross rotating the non-drive tires to the opposite axle and then straight rotating the drive tires to the opposite axle...
to avoid this, tires without the large treadblocks on the inside edge helps, also asymmetrical tires tend to help, though it will depend more on the tread design than anything, however, you can't cross rotate directional tires without breaking them down and flipping them on the wheels, so asymmetrical or non-directional tires are a lot better in that scenario...
03-22-09, 07:49 PM
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Thanks,
I am reading that Lexus sets up the alignment specs to improve handling which has the effect of wearing out the inside of tires especially on low profile wide tires. If the car is within specs, what should I do? I read some provide their own specs? Do you recommend this?
As for new tires, I will look for some with more treads on the inside.
Thanks again
I am reading that Lexus sets up the alignment specs to improve handling which has the effect of wearing out the inside of tires especially on low profile wide tires. If the car is within specs, what should I do? I read some provide their own specs? Do you recommend this?
As for new tires, I will look for some with more treads on the inside.
Thanks again
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03-22-09, 08:38 PM
#8
Thanks,
I am reading that Lexus sets up the alignment specs to improve handling which has the effect of wearing out the inside of tires especially on low profile wide tires. If the car is within specs, what should I do? I read some provide their own specs? Do you recommend this?
As for new tires, I will look for some with more treads on the inside.
Thanks again
I am reading that Lexus sets up the alignment specs to improve handling which has the effect of wearing out the inside of tires especially on low profile wide tires. If the car is within specs, what should I do? I read some provide their own specs? Do you recommend this?
As for new tires, I will look for some with more treads on the inside.
Thanks again
yup... lets see... Lexus spec calls for .04 to .20 toe in on both sides... if someone were to get .40 total toe (.20 on both sides), it would technically be within manufacturers spec, and you could still have the type of tire wear like you have... Also, many places use Hunter or other brand alignment machines and leave them to their "stock" tolerances... basically that means that they use what the manufacturers require, but also give you some leeway... it's quite easy to get a car "in the green" but its not always easy to get it correct...
front toe calls for ideally, 0 toe on the front, -.4 to .4 on each side... if it's in spec, there is no way the front toe is going to wear tires...
03-22-09, 09:09 PM
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Also, many places use Hunter or other brand alignment machines and leave them to their "stock" tolerances... basically that means that they use what the manufacturers require, but also give you some leeway... it's quite easy to get a car "in the green" but its not always easy to get it correct... .
There is a recall on the car for electronic power steering line assembly to be replaced. They state an alignment will be performed. What exactly should I ask them to do so they don’t just get the green light? Also, should the alignment be made with the new tires or the old?
Thanks
03-22-09, 09:43 PM
#10
probably not... an alignment check / fix costs Lexus 1.9 labor hours, whereas rotating a tire only costs .5 labor hours... according to the TSB, they are to road test and rotate first...
I would ask just for a copy of the alignment specs... post here and we can tell ya one way or the other...
really won't matter new tires or not, it doesn't appear they are so far gone as to skew the alignment, but, in all honesty, you'd be better off with new tires like the day before you took it in for the recall...
I would ask just for a copy of the alignment specs... post here and we can tell ya one way or the other...
really won't matter new tires or not, it doesn't appear they are so far gone as to skew the alignment, but, in all honesty, you'd be better off with new tires like the day before you took it in for the recall...
03-23-09, 05:41 AM
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9LC and 9LB
thanks
03-23-09, 05:49 AM
#12
PM me your e-mail address and I'll send you the PDF's... Which brake one, there are a few...
BR002-06R 04/27/2007 ALTERNATIVE FRONT BRAKE PADS - REVISED
L-SB-0121-08 11/20/2008 ALTERNATIVE FRONT BRAKE PADS - REVISED
BR006-06 12/14/2006 MIL "ON" DTC C1341, C1342, C1343, OR C1344 AFTER BRAKE PAD REPLACEMENT
BR002-06R 04/27/2007 ALTERNATIVE FRONT BRAKE PADS - REVISED
L-SB-0121-08 11/20/2008 ALTERNATIVE FRONT BRAKE PADS - REVISED
BR006-06 12/14/2006 MIL "ON" DTC C1341, C1342, C1343, OR C1344 AFTER BRAKE PAD REPLACEMENT
03-23-09, 10:22 AM
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Check this out.
Almost the exact same thing except on run flats. I bet they have harder side walls.
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/car...nna-tires.html
He is doing a study for CR and rotating, balancing and rotating. Mine are cupped a tad more, but almost exactly the same. I wonder if Toyota is being a little aggressive with the specs to get better handling ratings. There is just no excuse for this type of behavior and telling owners this is normal. If they set the car up this way, fine, but at least have other alignment options. Do you see anything that looks aggressive in the specs? It appears BMW is also reporting the same.
I drive almost extensively on the highway. If a softer sidewall helps, maybe I should be looking at that type of tire??
Thanks
Almost the exact same thing except on run flats. I bet they have harder side walls.
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/car...nna-tires.html
He is doing a study for CR and rotating, balancing and rotating. Mine are cupped a tad more, but almost exactly the same. I wonder if Toyota is being a little aggressive with the specs to get better handling ratings. There is just no excuse for this type of behavior and telling owners this is normal. If they set the car up this way, fine, but at least have other alignment options. Do you see anything that looks aggressive in the specs? It appears BMW is also reporting the same.
I drive almost extensively on the highway. If a softer sidewall helps, maybe I should be looking at that type of tire??
Thanks