1993ES300x

Hi guys, i got a set of Potenzas about 3 months ago... well one of the tires have a big nail on it.. my cuz told me i need to bring it to a tire shop to get it patch..... now is it just as good as plugging it????...

where should i go and how much should i expect to pay for it???.. is patching better than plugging????..

rosen39

If it is not a large spike that went through the tread, then get a plug kit at an autoparts store. The plugs look like tar covered rope, or they have rubber strip plugs that have an adhesive built into them. As long as the nail hole is not in the shoulder of the tire (the nail hole should be in the tread), then you can use the plug kit. I had a tire store try to do a patch from the inside twice, and then I fanally used the plug to stop the air from leaking.

1993ES300x

Thanks for the reply... right after i posted this thread, i went on to read some info in Tirerack.com and found that there is a thing call "plug & patch".. i might go and get that done. but still dont' know which shop here in Brooklyn has these things

another thing that i learn from tirerack was that my tires are rated Z meaning it's high performance, does that mean if i do a PLUG repair. it'll degrade the rating???..


here's the link for the "Patch & plug " combo

http://www.blackjacktirerepair.com/d...ild=6&code=377

rosen39

That is the best type of patch to use. I thought you had an "H" or "V" rated tire. I have used the plugs on "V" rated tires with no problems. Your "Z" rated tire should have no problems with the type plug/patch you mentioned, if the nail was not huge and the puncture fell within the treadline. What really sucks is when you have a low profile tire, hit a pothole, and the the cords start to separate. You get a bubble, and the tire is trash.

Brandon@TR

Mushroom style plug/patch is the way to go. Speed rated tires default to Q if they are patched.

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

you all wanna know what the tire manufacturers say???

1) tire must have 3/32" or more tread depth
2) puncture must not be in the shoulder or sidewall / general rule 1.5" or more from the shoulder, however this varies tire to tire
3) tire can only be repaired twice, and must be more than 15" away from one another
4) tire must not have any visible run flat or other damage inside or outside
5) hole cannot be more than 1/4" diameter

A) tire must be dismounted for repair
B) repair must fill the hole left in the tread and seal the inside as well - typically a patch/plug combination, a two piece patch and plug, or a plug with a sealer on the inside
C) tire loses it's speed rating (As mentioned, defaults to Q), irregardless of it's prior speed rating
D) tire manufacturers deny any type of claimed defect in the area of the puncture

If for whatever reason, the tire is only plugged, or only patched, the manufacturer has every right to completely void the warranty on the tire completely.

Brandon@TR

Mitsuguy makes a good point, we sometimes get tires in for a warranty claim and if they have been patched or plugged we have to deny the claim. In fact maybe Mitsuguy can shed some light but it has always been my understanding that the use of any temporary inflation device, like fix-a-flat also voids a warranty.

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

Anything that modifies a tire from the way it was from the factory, minus normal wear and tear can void the warranty. The whole fix-a-flat issue is controversial and we will not repair a tire that has had any type of temporary sealer in it due to various reasons (maybe more than one hole covered up by the sealer, and it also seeps into the casing itself making it less than likely that a patch stick properly). As far as voiding the warranty, the manufacturer has the right to, though they may or may not choose to, depending upon the circumstances that the tire failed.

One thing I can tell you is that if there were to be any vehicle damage due to a failed tire, and it was found to have repairs and or sealer in it, you can bet your butt they will be denying any claim for damage repair...

GS2006

Is this true for all manufacturers?

What type claim would be denied?

What type of claim?

Thanks

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

AFAIK, all the manufacturers that I can recall dealing with, yes, it voids speed rating, however, I wanna say I remember one tire manufacturer that it didn't matter, but I don't recall for sure - there are sooo many of them out there...

the types of claims denied - a separation or other problem in the same area as the repair that would normally be considered a manufacturing defect, may have been caused by the puncture and subsequent repair - as soon as a tire is repaired, it is no longer under the manufacturers control as to what has happened to that tire... along the same lines of modding a car - if what you do could be related to the cause of failure, then they have the right to deny your warranty... however, from what I've seen, manufacturers are pretty good about taking care of things that are not related to the puncture - for example, a separation 90 degrees away from the puncture, they would probably take care of, though they might deny it - some separations are caused by driving on a tire underinflated...

whats really critical is when the tire comes apart and damages a vehicle - you better believe manufacturers are going to deny those claims... and customers always blame the tire... I had a customer bring in a trailer tire he wanted to make a damage claim on... he brought the trailer in on the spare and the trailer fender on one side was absolutely destroyed... I took the tire off the wheel, as we are supposed to inspect it and note any findings on a claim form before we wrap it up and mail it into the claims department of whatever manufacturer... as soon as I took the tire off the wheel, I saw where it had been repaired improperly (patch only on some and plug only on some others) at least 30 times... and he was surprised the tire failed! I told him straight up that he might be wasting his time by even trying to file a claim, but he insisted... I mailed it in, they denied it...

he had a quote of like $2700 to fix the fenders (it was an all aluminum trailer, blah blah blah), so, now, he is out $2700 in repairs because he was too cheap to buy a sub $100 tire...

GS2006

Thanks for the detailed information.
I tried to find a few manufactures and what they state. I could not find anything on Michelin except about correct repair procedure and contact authorized dealer.

Dunlop, well they state “NOTE: Dunlop does not warrant any inspection or repair process. The repair is entirely the responsibility of the repairer. Repairs void all warranties. Do not exceed posted speed limits on any repaired tire. Speed Ratings are voided if tires are repaired. “
http://www.dunloptires.com/care/damage.html

90 degrees is long way away from a normal nail hole. Thanks for your explanation on liability. I see they are “trying” to limit their liability if the tire fails at high speed, however I do not see this being communicated to customers by “their” authorized dealers. I’m sure Firestone bit the bullet hard on that. Actually, DT states that is not the case with their repair procedures. Asked several managers in my case. Actually, when I dug into the ratings I notice disclaimers on the speed ratings being in a lab environment and …
DT states they will honor the warranty with their repairs. However, I don’t see them covering car damage?? It appears they will cover tires under “their” road hazard warranty. I noticed TR has a road hazard warranty as well, but it appears they may deny claims?? Interesting stuff.

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

Discount Tire may tell you that their warranty will still cover things, because they can do whatever they want as far as replacement is concerned...

However, if a speed rated tire fails on you at, say, 130 mph, and has a proper repair, but destroys the car in the process, sure, you shouldn't have been going that fast, but, that tire is no longer designed to go that fast because it has been modified and is in a form that has not been tested or proven...

ultimately, if a tire fails and causes damage, and you take it to Discount Tire for warranty purposes, all they will do is replace the tire free, and mail in the tire for claims purposes... then its up to the tire manufacturer... if it has been repaired anywhere, and that repair could have compromised the tire in such as way as to cause it to fail, they may deny it, then your only recourse would be to sue whoever repaired the tire... DT will not take responsibility in that case unless pushed to...

I still have paperwork from a seminar I attended when I worked for DT stating that tire repairs void speed ratings. This is not new information, that was approximately 6-7 years ago...

DT's warranty is just a way for their sales guys to do the right thing when needed... other tire sales practices do similar... for instance, if you had a Bridgestone/Firestone tire and it was brought in to my service center with a separation, and right in the middle of it is a proper repair, we would have replaced it under our road hazard warranty, had you had warranty on the tire... Discount Tire would have done the same, and if you didn't have warranty, they would have tried to sell you warranty on all 4 tires, so they could warranty out the one...

GS2006

Would store managers been taught this information on the speed ratings? I pushed hard and they say no or this is the first I have heard such a claim.
If it “voids” or “changes” the speed ratings and or warranty, could the customer demand a replacement tire under road hazard warranty?

mowmow

1993ES300x, if you take it to the Tire shop, plug & patch, Bridgestone potenza are not the best tire around, there are other options out there

Very detail information Mitsuguy and I agree with you
DT did a patch and plug on my Kuhmo Esta SPT the first time I had small nail in it. The 2nd time I got a couple of nails, they replace the entire tire for free because of their road hazard warranty I had previously purchased, they also asked me if I want to pay $14 to have the same road hazard warranty on the new tire, of course I said yes because my original estimate was to replace a tire $140+ vs now $14, 10% of the cost.
This is all an effort to keep the customer happy and return customers.

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

Well, here we go...

Are you sure it is a store manager? Any one that works at the counter at DT has a management position, even though they may have only known about tires for a few weeks... There are 6 management positions at DT, Store Manager, Senior Assistant, then 3rd through 6th level, there may be multiple people at any level except store manager.

If they are claiming no, or its the first they've heard of it, they are either idiots or trying to avoid replacing a tire for free, plain and simple... It is taught at one of the first tire seminars they ever would have attended and is brought up occasionally through multiple channels. At DT, I would imagine if you complained enough, or simply wrote an e-mail to regional management, that you would get your replacement tire instead of a repaired tire on this basis, however, as I recall the warranty terms, it's DT's judgement to either repair or replace. At Bridgestone/Firestone, it's actually written in the road hazard warranty that at the customers discretion, the tire will either be repaired or replaced if it's a speed rated tire above S/T. The customer chooses, however, this is not something they advertise, as they'd rather fix the tire than replace it if possible.


Wait a minute... you are saying the Potenza's are not the best tire around, but you have Kumho SPT's on your car? I would put a Bridgestone Potenza up against any tire in it's class and have no doubt that it will be equivalent or better. Potenza RE050 vs Pilot Sport PS2 vs Yokohama Advan Neova- great match up, Bridgestone RE-01R vs Michelin Pilot Sport Cup vs Yokohama A032R... I could keep going, but basically, Bridgestone is the largest tire manufacturer in the world and they build some of the best tires as well... The Potenza lineup is a great performance family of tires - they are not the best at everything - that's a hard line to distinguish, but they are on top with the other big players like Michelin, Yokohama and others...