nardeezy

This may have been mentioned in another thread. I realize that an AWD car shouldn't have a staggered wheel setup. However, the CEO of my company has a Carrera S4 and it's AWD with an OEM staggered setup. The GS300 AWD was meant more for snow than high performance. I went on www.tirerack.com and entered the AWD for a wheel upgrade and some of the selections are staggered.

1) Can I go with a staggered wheel setup as long as the overall tire diameters for the front and rear are the same?

2) Do the diameters have to be exact or is there a tolerance (e.g. +/-.50")? Do you guys think

3) Would the tires wear the same if they're not rotated? I can't see how they would rotate unless the bi-directional tires.

LexFather

From my understanding, no you cannot go staggered, b/c it will interfere with the AWD computer system. All wheels must be the same width and size.

I am sure Porsche has tuned and tested the CS4 (I love that car) to work with this setup OEM. They also do not endorse 19" wheel setups on ANY 996 911, as the suspension geometry would be off and it would need adjustment.

I am more curious about Lexus so let me do some snooping. Or maybe VVti can chime in here.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

yeah, seems like it has to do with how the awd system is tuned and setup. i have read that on the gs and is awd, you can't do staggered wheel setup.

LexFather

I am with you dude, but I am going to see if we can find a "cheat"

nardeezy

I understand what you are all saying but a Pirelli PZero Nero 245/30/20 tire on a 20x8.5 wheel has an approx. 25.8" OD and a 285/25/20 on 20x10 wheel is 25.6" OD. That's only a .1" delta in radius. I've heard/read not sure where but the GS300 AWD runs a 40% front 60% rear power distribution. .1" doesn't seem like much especially for the rear wheels which supposedly are getting more engine power resulting in a little more tire wear.

I did not put into consideration if that wheel fitment I mentioned above would even fit on an AWD model, that's extreme but I would like the look oh so much. I havn't done any research into 19" wheels/tires yet.

The packages that www.tirerack.com has are for different width wheels front and back but using the same tire size E.g. 19x8 front 19x9 rear using a 245/35/19 all around. Would that look good? I assume that Tire Rack knows what they're talking about when you input your cars exact specifications for an upgrade.

LexFather

That may seem like an insignificant difference but to the computer system, which relies on accuracy, it could mean a failure or misreading.

From my understanding, the Tire Rack tests the cars on their own track, but I am not sure if they KNOW, if staggered is correct on an AWD GS.

FlintGS06

talk to derreck at d2autosport he can set you up

SoCalSC4

It's all about the tire circumference, nothing else.

We do staggered set-up on Bentley GTs, Audi Quattro cars, Porsche 911 Turbos, Lamborghini Gallardo, etc. all day long.
Get the tires right and you'll have zero issues. The ECU does have SOME tolerance for front/rear differences as even the factory tires will not wear at the exact same rate. I would do this on an AWD GS in a heartbeat!

Or for the staggered look, you could (for instance) use 245/35-19 on:

19x9 front 2" lip
19x9 rear 3" lip (and more aggressive offset)
The ECU would never know it was changed from OE.

LEXISM

iTrader: (2)

how about something like this ....rice maybe ?



Axis Decade with Maxis Lip - A bigger lip on the rear than the front, the Axis Decade allows those with cars that can not take a staggered rim to get the staggered look. Both the wheels pictured above are 18x8, but the lip of one on the right has the Axis Maxis Lip System, and is almost an inch and a half deeper than the one on the left.

Axis Decade with Maxis Lip- Axis wheels has done it again with the styling of the Axis Decade. Made only in 18 inch sizes, the Decade can be bought either with the standard 2 inch lip all around, or with the Maxis lip, which is a 3 1/4 inch lip on the same 18x8 inch size wheel. The lip is a high polished stainless steel that is almost like a mirror. This application is for the Maxis Lip System, which will give you a 3 1/4 inch lip on the rear, and a 2 inch lip on the front for a staggered look but with the same tire size and 18x8 wheel size.

foofighter

I'm going to have to agree with bob on this. I've run staggered on my awd R32 and the only thing that you have to becareful about is maintaining the same OD. On the Haldex AWD system, it actually allows for a 5% (might be more) of tolerance from front to rear and side to side (i would imagine this is for spare tire).

Also, bear in mind that Porsches AWD system is rear wheel biased not 50/50. I'm not sure what Lexus' system is set at but running a staggard setup on an AWD system that's rear wheel biased wouldnt be that big of a detrement to your handling...like it would on Audi's Quattro system which is 50/50 based...for now...apparently their next gen Torsen diff that's found in the RS4 will be 40/60 biased towards the rear.

So the long of it, if you are careful w/ the overall OD of the tires/wheel combo and you're within that tolerance (that is to be determined) you can run staggard all day long...the only thing you'll suffer from would be MORE understeer.

Another method the Audi guys are doing to achieve the bigger lip in the rear look...is to run a different (more aggressive) offset in the rear wheel to gain that while keeping the same width front and rear.

Good Luck

LexFather

Thanks Bob, this is the clarification we needed.

nardeezy

What wheels do that, or how would you do it, I've seen the Axis "Maxis" lip wheels, is that the same concept? If so, what other mfg.s do this?

foofighter

there are some mass produced wheels that do that...but the majority of them are custom.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i actually have more question

in stock form, the car say is 40/60 on power, meaning 60% power going to the rear. but if you put stagger setup on the car, the rear has more traction, meaning it has more grap. would it affect how the car put powers on the gnd then, thus messing up the awd system?

on the other hand, are you guys saying that the OD of the wheel package is the key to awd? i am sure 0.1 inch is nothing, better be coz' even different tires have different variation on that already.

i guess in general we can say that for awd system, the key is that it will be constantly sensing the traction on 4 wheels, if there is a loss of traction on any of them, the power will be redistributed. am i right about that? by "sensing" i mean the rotation, slip, etc.... if that's really the case, then putting staggered setup will affect the traction difference between the front and back. does that mean it will put more stress on the differential coz' it's constantly trying to correct the problem? could that be the reason why lexus doesn't recommend staggered setup on the gs300 awd (and is250 awd)?

again, i understand about other cars like the 911 turbo. those cars even out of the factory have staggered setup already. but our point here is the gs300 after all

foofighter

40/60 is the split on the GS? i would imagine that by going to a staggard setup...you're also upping the traction in the front as well because you're going wider than stock...I would imagine the torque split would still be the same and shouldnt do/change anything to the drivetrain

maybe the lexus drivetrain cant handle the power? hence only available on the 250?