swerve

I own a 2001 GS430.

I have for almost 1 year been experiencing a vibration at 60mph in the steering wheel. The vfibration always goes away for a couple of weeks after every balance and alignment.

Tustin Lexus first stated the wheels need balancing. For a few weeks, that helped until it came back.

They then told me I had cheap tires (Continentals) that was causing the problem and I needed to replace them. I finally replaced them with Falkens and I still have the vibration. I took it back to Lexus and they did a special balance called "Road Variance Balancing" and told me the new tires themselves were off balance. they again rebalanced the wheels and tires and guaranteed me that would fix the vibration.

The vibration came back again two weeks later. Does someone have any other ideas as to what may be causing this problem?

cyclemax

First question-

Do you have chrome wheels?

swerve

Yes I have chrome wheels, the entire car is factory original except for the new Falkens.

Why do you ask?

cyclemax

Because I had the same problem with my 98. After replacing tires, rotors, 3 times balancing I finally figured out the problem.

Believe it or not, your tires are slipping on your wheels. Take a yellow crayon and mark each tire at the valve stem and observe its location after you drive for a while. If they indeed are slipping, the mark will move and your wheel/tire is now out of balance. You can go and have it rebalanced, but as soon as it moves again, you will have vibration all over again.

The problem is likely due over application of bead lubricant during tire installation. I've watched tire tech's slop that Crisco-like paste all over the beads before mounting, thinking that more is better. Well, they are supposed to use it sparingly to lubricate the lower surface of the bead only (not the surface adjacent to sidewall). This allows the bead to slide into place and sit up against the wheel flange with no lubricant.

They make special lubricants designed for hi-performance applications that dry out after installation. That's what I always used on my motorcycles and never had a problem.

swerve

Your response makes the most sense. I will mark the tires and keep an eye out for the slippage.

I am from Providence and am amazed how much it has changed since I left in 1989!

Thanks!

Bobhgd

Good point about the possibility of the tire slipping on the wheel.

There are some tire installers using incorrect lubricant on tire beads during installation, even at Lexus/Toyota dealers, something I personally experienced.

Correct tire installation lubricant is an aqueous (water-based) solution, either a purpose-made rubber lubricant solution sold as tire lubricant or simply a mild concentration detergent (e.g. Dawn) and water solution. The "slippery" component of the solution will quickly break down, evaporate, and/or absorb into the rubber compound of the tire, and the slipperiness will go away within a day or so. (A guess)

I had a problem with a tire installer who used the wrong lubricant, silicone spray, to lubricate the beads of my tires. This silicone spray remains slippery for weeks, on the tire surface and at the rubber bead to rim interface. I did mark my tires & wheels, and did observe that the tires slipped on the wheels.

If someone uses silicone spray to lube your tires during installation, you've got problems.

If you drive with gentle accelerations & braking as I do, your slippage will be minimal, probably less than 30 degrees or so, and the silicone will eventually dry out. But if you drive as most Americans do, you may very well experience substantial slippage, beyond 30 degrees, before the silicone dries out. And that much slippage will indeed render the tire/wheel assy unbalanced.

Otherwise:

The Hunter GSP9700 "Road Force" balance machine is indeed the way to go to minimize vibration.

BUT: Most technicians do not use it 100% correctly, in my experience. It is a fairly complicated piece of equipment to fully & correctly utilize, compared to other shop equipment, and the low-paid tire technicians are usually (a) poorly-trained, (b) "less-than-commited", (c) marginal in general, or (d) a combination thereof.

So even though the GSP9700 can produce good results, chances are that you may yet to fully benefit from this equipment.

Personally, I always insert myself into the GSP9700 process, when I get it done, and I make sure it is done correctly. But most customers do not have the background it takes to do this.

Have fun.

HKS_GS430

did alignment today, the car still vibrates, it def and the bead problem, i changed back to factories and still same problem. never heard of anyone having problems with tire grease causing tires to slip.

SSK0771

I had a similar problem when I installed 19" Maya GR5's. It was vibrating right around 60mph.

I had to get it balanced 4 different time and now , its OK.

I had the place where I bought the wheels use the regular balancer and after that, put it on HUNTER to rebalace again..

Now the vibration is very very minor. You can hardly notice it now.

I think Lexus is very sensitive.

cyclemax

Very good points Bobhgd.

To avoid confusion, I would like to add that the Hunter 9700 system will not solve a bead lubricant problem.

I've also experienced imbalance at less than 30 degrees rotation, depending on the compensating weight added. Wide 19" wheels on my GS can require over 2.00 oz, so once that shifts out of position, I can usually pick it up.

I was so frustrated with my local tire service that I actually purchased a nearly new Coats 700 balancer for home use. I cannot compensate for "road force variation" like the Hunter system, but my results are very good so far. In fact, I found that my left front wheel was over .75 oz out of balance. Not because of slippage however. Apparently the "experts" just forgot to balance it before it was delivered (had no weights at all).

cyclemax

HKS, Could you clarify this?

bad-gs400

I'm having the exact same problem. I just took my rims into the tire shop and had them do 2 road force balances. They said the wheels came out to a road force of 4 which is supposed to be very low. However, I still get the steering wheel vibration at 60mph. It used to be at 55mph, then at 55mph.

I just marked the tires with a crayon, so within the next week I should see if they are slipping. If so, whats the best thing to do? Take them back to the tire shop and have them take them off and put em back on without tons of lube?

Thanks!

cyclemax

Yes, take them back to the shop and show them. Have them use a water-based lubricant sparingly, and only apply it to the bead shoulder (surface parallel to the axle).

tmf2004

iTrader: (15)

MAke sure the wheels are properly torqed.... I did this the other day after installing the Front brakes and it made a huge difference.... I beleive it was 76 Ft. pounds.... If not torqed properly the wheel will not be on the hub properly and the slightest mm out of wack will cause lots of problems Hope that helps a little.... My 20's also came with road force balancing..

If not satified PM lexforlife as he did this for me and he may answer your questions...

Tony

bad-gs400

On my final Hunter balance, the steering wheel vibration was never resolved at all even right after the balance was completed. Even if the tire shop used too much lubricant, I would imagine the car would ride fine for at least a few days after it was completed. This was not the case, so I ended up removing the front left Moda R6 (18X8) and replaced it with my stock Lexus wheel/tire (17X8). The vibration went down by about 30%. I sent the Moda R6 into Tire Rack to have them check it out and they said I had the incorrect centering ring installed. They put the correct one on, balanced it and sent it back to me. I just installed the Moda back on my car 2 days ago and I STILL have the steering wheel vibration at 60mph. At this point, I'm really not sure what to do. Its driving me nuts!

I'm going to take the car into my Lexus dealer on Monday morning to have them check for any other issues (alignement, etc.) and see if they have any recommendations. I noticed the mention of the torque level. Would the torque have that big of an impact on these vibration issues?

On another note, I have noticed for a long time that my steering also feels a bit "loose". I have already done the upgraded steering ECU, which I noticed no difference from. Is there anything else I can do to get a very tight handling feel in the steering wheel? Maybe this would help out with the vibration issues....

Thanks!

bad-gs400

Just got done reading this post on the vibration issues and the tightening of the steering wheel pretensioner. Very interesting:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ight=vibration

Does anyone know where the TSB is located for this and which VIN numbers are listed for the 98-99 GS models. If mine is listed, should my dealer fix this for free?

Thanks!