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Why Big Brakes?

Old 09-27-03, 01:51 PM
  #1  
whitels
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Default Why Big Brakes?

I like seeing those big caliper brake systems, the brembos, wilwoods, etc. But, in my mind, won't you benefit with these brakes only if you are running race spec tires? If the OEM brake setup is able to activate the ABS, which means that your brakes were strong enough to trigger a wheel lock, then the OEM brake setup is good enough, right? It seems that the weakest link in stopping power is still the consumer road tires....

I'm speaking in the context of street driving. I'm sure brake fade will be an issue with OEM system on race circuits or regular mountain/downhill driving.

Last edited by whitels; 09-27-03 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 09-27-03, 09:42 PM
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I agree with you but also you must take in the number one factor is rotation. Most people who upgrade their brakes are because they have already upgraded their wheels, probaly to 20's. It takes a 20in. wheel longer to rotate than a 16in. wheel thus taking longer to stop. Very minimal unless your in a truck and really go big to 24's but still longer. Also very heavy breaking. Not talking autocross I am talking 90mph+ on the freeway and having to brake, alot. Do this a few times with factor brakes and you will increase your stopping distance by far, trust me it has happened. There is also the "look" factor. Alot of people only get them do to the look. I drvie hard and fast. I need to uprade mine real bad. I go threw stock pads in two months. Yeah I know what am I waiting for. I don't know
Brembo, The Brake Man http://thebrakeman.com/lexus, Baer, Stillen, some Stoptech, Project U, are all compatible with factor ABS. Some Stoptech kits.
Depends on what you call street driving? Ask SickLex and his definition of "street driving" is totally different than yours. My street driving is real intense. Suspension, brakes, and tires are the most important upgrade to me.
Hope that helps.
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Old 09-27-03, 10:18 PM
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Excellent Write-up. Thumbs Up.

-Anthony
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Old 09-28-03, 10:38 AM
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It takes a 20in. wheel longer to rotate than a 16in. wheel thus taking longer to stop.
Actually, assuming you've tried to keep the overall wheel/tire diameter as close as possible to the original (to minimize your speedo/odo error), your circumference remains more or less the same, and therefore the time it takes to go thru a full rotation is also the same for a given speed.

What changes is the fact that more of the mass of the wheel/tire combo is farther from the center of mass which increases rotational inertia. This makes the upsized tire harder to accelerate/decelerate than the original (in the above example) 16" wheel/tire. And THAT is what makes upgraded brakes more important, by having a larger area of pad, more thermal mass (to minimize fade), and the mechanical advantage obtained by having braking forces being applied farther from the previously mentioned center of mass.
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Old 09-28-03, 02:13 PM
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Plus the make the car look great.

We can discuss all the technical advantages in feel, performance, fade, ... but a beneficial upgrade that makes our car look better is in my book. Some may say that a brake upgrade for everyday driving is overkill but aren't a lot of our upgrades overkill?

There are some on here that upgrades just enough to maximize the capabilities of the car. I say more power to you. BUT, the really hot cars that everyone raves about have those upgrades and then some. Nothing wrong with either appoach to modding.
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Old 09-28-03, 08:31 PM
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mooretorque

Yeah good point. Forgot some people actually do the same sizing. I did it didn't even think about it. I really was talking about SUV's. Those guys with 24's really need to upgrade bad.
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Old 09-29-03, 01:21 AM
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well even with 20s, no matter what tires you put on, the overall diameter is going to be off for sure. but then still, it's not the biggest problem. the bigges problem is the inertia with thoes big wheels. stopping a 16" wheel from turning is a lot easier than stopping a 20" wheel at the same speed (simple physics), so that's one reason why big brakes help.

but the other biggest problem is brake fade. the stock brakes are not good when it comes to long time driving. for example if i drive beween here and LA (350miles) by the time i get to the other side, braking would be horrible already, sometimes you feel there is no brakes at all. that's bad.... that's the main reason for my ap racing besides the look i have to say

and last of all, about the ABS, it's absolutely right that with these big brakes, abs kicks in a lot faster than the normal brakes coz' it grabs the rotors so hard. for example if i really go out and go to 60 and then stand on my brakes, abs kicks in pretty fast. with stock brakes, it won't kicks in after a little while. so ultimately it will also depend on your tires
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Old 09-29-03, 02:36 AM
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APLUS, absolutely right! The guys with the way oversized wheels on their Escalades, etc, really need to do brake upgrades for all those reasons........plus stock brakes look ridiculous on those things. But the big reason is just to be able to stop, again and again.

And romini and whitels are right also, in that ultimate braking distances are more rubber dependent than brake dependent. More rubber on the road, all other things being equal, normally means shorter stopping distances.
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Old 09-29-03, 02:55 AM
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Cool Baer EradiSpeed+1

Anyone see the new product from Baer called the EradiSpeed+1? In addition to increasing the rotor size it allow you to use the OEM calipers by using a special adapter. Checked their website and they do not have a application for Lexus yet for this new product. Maybe if enough interest they may produce one for the GS.

http://www.eradispeed.com/eradispeed02.shtm

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/baer/eradispeed.jsp
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brake...%2B1+Rotor+Kit

Chu...
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Old 08-15-17, 06:39 AM
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I think the OP is dead on correct. As long as the caliper/pad/rotor combo can lock the wheels, the only advantage of larger brakes is better heat dissipation. I run a race car in 2-lap time trials and my brakes are stock except for aggressive pads. I can get away with this because 2 laps is not long enough to generate enough heat to cause fade. If I was running a 30 lap race, my setup would be useless by mid race. I agree that big brakes would be helpful if I lived on top of Pike's Peak, but I have a hard time believing the poster who said that cross-country driving alone causes fade. Fade is purely a function of heat buildup.
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Old 08-15-17, 08:48 AM
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Why Big Brakes?

…Bc 2jzgte...,,duh
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Old 08-19-17, 08:15 AM
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I speak from personal experience. I has stock brake calipers, ls400 4 piston front calipers and gs350 front calipers. There is no comparison on stock system and ls400 calipers, brake feel is better and like previous people mentioned its harder to overheat them let along brake disk is bigger also. Gs350 calipers are also better than ls400 calipers but the diference isnt as big.
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