TRD vs Daizen Sway Bars reviews – VERY LONG
06-29-03, 09:49 PM
#1
TRD vs Daizen Sway Bars reviews – VERY LONG
Well after all the talk between the two, I was able to get the Daizen sways intalled on my GS4. Since I had the TRD sways in the past I have been able to do some personally testing on the two setups and see what difference I can tell between the two. To make this review interesting, I have picked a few different types of roads to do the testing, and I will also post the experience by my fiancée. Girls a lot of times look at things different from us, so I think her words would worth quite a bit too.
My testing involves the following:
1) smooth straight local road
2) smooth straight highway
3) fast highway lane change
4) fairly uneven local road
5) fairly uneven highway
6) highway off ramp
7) empty parking lot “autocross” feel
8) misc
A little bit of history on my mods. I started with a totally stock GS4, which I thought was horrible in handling. The car was fast but taking a turn at high speed was pretty bad. Body roll was significant, hard stop/acceleration had a lot of dip and that. Fast freeway lane change would result in cabin swinging left and right. Later on I got the Tein HA coilover setup and that alone made things very different already. Body roll was reduced substantially and I was a lot more confident in taking hard turns, however the ride quality was greatly reduced since the HA was quite stiff. After that I put on 19” which degrade the ride quality even more coz’ of the very lor profile tires. Then I put on the TRD STB and LCB and seriously, I couldn’t feel much with those two mods. Last of all I put on the TRD sways, which I immediately noticed even more on rail handling of the car. Steering was more instant as well, but at the same time I could easily tell that the ride got harsher as well. Time goes by, and I finally changed out the Tein HA and got the Tein Flex, which made the ride quality a lot better than what it was.
1) smooth straight local road
Well, as you might have guessed, sway bars have little effect on the car when you are just driving a straight road. Since the road surface is smooth, I wasn’t really able to tell any difference between the two. Ride was good and comfortable in this condition for both setups were almost identical.
2) smooth straight highway
Again I wasn’t able to tell much difference between the two. No noticeable noise or ride difference between the two. If anything the road noise by the low profile tires definitely overcome everything else.
3) fast highway lane change
Thanks get a little bit interesting. Keep in mind that the TRD sways do not have any settings available whereas the Daizen rear sway bar is 3 ways adjustable. Currently it’s set at the middle setting. With both setup, the steering wheel responses were both very instant, and the car was in total control in both cases, and lane change was very sudden yet the car didn’t swing left and right.
4) fairly uneven local road
Here we start to tell the difference between the two. Remember I had the Tein HA together with the TRD sways for a fairly long period of time? There is this stripe of road that my fiancée drives by every day to her office, it’s a shortcut and it’s very bumpy. With the old setup, we could only go at around 20 to 25mph without hurting the back. Ever since we changed to the Flex (still had the TRD sways), things got a lot better and we were able to go at maybe 35 to 40mph before I felt uncomfortable and start jumping around. However, I still had some left and right swing and I had to hold tight to the steering wheel to make it go straight, which I wasn’t able to explain why. But after I put on the Daizen sways, the ride over that area of road is silky smooth now, even with my 19” and pulling at 50mph on that stripe. Yes, it’s very smooth on that piece of bumpy land now, which I am very surprised, considering the size of wheels I am running.
Now I can’t be 100% sure why the pulling left and right feel I had before with the Tein Flex and TRD sways, but maybe it’s since the sways were to stiff with the TRD, one of the wheels is going up a bump, the other side was pulled up as well a little bit, causing it leaving the ground a little bit, thus the car pull to one side. Again I am not 100%, but for sure I am very very happy with the current setup, the ride is so smooth.
5) fairly uneven highway
I thought the changes on the uneven local road were dramatic enough, but on the uneven highway the changes were even more noticeable. For those who live in CA, you probably know of all the freeway “extension” from 4 to 5 lanes, where you find the fast lane to be different left and right, and they are very uneven as well. With my Tein Flex and TRD sways, the cabin wasn’t as bumpy as before anymore, however in order to have good control of the car you have to hold your steering wheel pretty tight, since you will feel that the car was trying to pull left and right often. You also feel that the car is trying to jump left and right as well.
With the Tein Flex and Daizen sways now, things are so different. Inside the cabin the feel is even better than it was with Tein Flex and TRD sways, and the ride was amazingly smooth. Moreover, me as a driver I don’t have to concentrate so much on avoiding the car pulling left and right anymore.
6) highway off ramp
I tried two types of highway off ramp. The first kind was those where you go 270 degrees and got on an overpass or another highway, and the other one is an off ramp and then a sharp right turn to get off the freeway. On both turns I tried to push the car as hard as possible (using my feeling) without breaking lose the rear end.
With both sway bars setups, I was able to push the car to about the same speed on both scenarios. The car still stayed very flat in both setup and inside the cabin you won’t feel that the car tilts more in one case than the other. My fiancée was in the car too so I think it’s safe to say the difference between the car was pretty negligible.
7) empty parking lot “autocross” feel
Well I didn’t really go to any autocross with the car, but in late night time I went to the same empty parking lot (with TRD and Daizen sways) and did some random autocross style driving. This involves very hard acceleration, braking, sharp turns. I even did some serious over steering to see how the car break lose and swing out the tails. I did that with my fiancée in the car (well, not sure how well she felt after that, haha), and I didn’t say a word when I did the turns. So she didn’t know which way I was turning and “prepare” for the turns.
After the autocrossing, personally I felt that the two sway bars performance pretty much identical. The car stays very flat on turns, very sharp handling and the steering response were all pretty much the same. I also asked my fiancée what she thought between the two setups, she couldn’t tell any difference as well. She said that there were almost no body rolls on both setups and she felt very good about them.
On the out of control scenarios where I intentionally took very hard turns until the car swung out, the speed that the car broke lose was pretty much the same too.
8) misc
Some other thoughts I have on the setups. Currently my Daizen sways are in the middle setting, so I wonder what would happen if I put it in the most aggressive setting. Personally I don’t think it would be a good thing for CA driving since the road conditions here are not that perfect, and putting it in the most aggressive settings will make the rear end swing out most easily.
My fiancée she definitely loves the new sways. Like I said she drives back to office every day and I actually didn’t tell her what she should expect with the Daizen sways. Funny enough, she came to me and told me that if the Daizen sways make the car rides softer, since on the shortcut to the office she didn’t feel the harsh ride she have had over the past year. I think this is a very promising result.
So this is my review of the TRD and the Daizen Sways, hopefully up till this point everything has been as objective as they could be. Now what do I think of the two sways for normal daily driving?
Performance wise I think both sways are pretty much the same (with the Daizen in the middle setting), at least from all the tests I could do. The car stays flat on both setups, handling responses are both awesome, and very instant feedback. The only difference I could tell was at the comfort level, where the Daizen sways ride considerably softer than the TRD sways. Now keep in mind this comes with the fact that when I first put on the TRD sways I noticed immediately the harsher ride too. If the area you live in have pretty good road condition, I bet you won’t be able to tell much different between the two setups. But if the road condition isn’t as friendly as you want, you might want to consider what you want.
It used to be the case that TRD was pretty much the only sway bars option you can go for if you want to improve the handling of your GS, but now Daizen Sports Tuning has definitely come out with another setup that’s as good as the TRD. With pretty much the same price, it’s good to see that we all have a choice now
My testing involves the following:
1) smooth straight local road
2) smooth straight highway
3) fast highway lane change
4) fairly uneven local road
5) fairly uneven highway
6) highway off ramp
7) empty parking lot “autocross” feel
8) misc
A little bit of history on my mods. I started with a totally stock GS4, which I thought was horrible in handling. The car was fast but taking a turn at high speed was pretty bad. Body roll was significant, hard stop/acceleration had a lot of dip and that. Fast freeway lane change would result in cabin swinging left and right. Later on I got the Tein HA coilover setup and that alone made things very different already. Body roll was reduced substantially and I was a lot more confident in taking hard turns, however the ride quality was greatly reduced since the HA was quite stiff. After that I put on 19” which degrade the ride quality even more coz’ of the very lor profile tires. Then I put on the TRD STB and LCB and seriously, I couldn’t feel much with those two mods. Last of all I put on the TRD sways, which I immediately noticed even more on rail handling of the car. Steering was more instant as well, but at the same time I could easily tell that the ride got harsher as well. Time goes by, and I finally changed out the Tein HA and got the Tein Flex, which made the ride quality a lot better than what it was.
1) smooth straight local road
Well, as you might have guessed, sway bars have little effect on the car when you are just driving a straight road. Since the road surface is smooth, I wasn’t really able to tell any difference between the two. Ride was good and comfortable in this condition for both setups were almost identical.
2) smooth straight highway
Again I wasn’t able to tell much difference between the two. No noticeable noise or ride difference between the two. If anything the road noise by the low profile tires definitely overcome everything else.
3) fast highway lane change
Thanks get a little bit interesting. Keep in mind that the TRD sways do not have any settings available whereas the Daizen rear sway bar is 3 ways adjustable. Currently it’s set at the middle setting. With both setup, the steering wheel responses were both very instant, and the car was in total control in both cases, and lane change was very sudden yet the car didn’t swing left and right.
4) fairly uneven local road
Here we start to tell the difference between the two. Remember I had the Tein HA together with the TRD sways for a fairly long period of time? There is this stripe of road that my fiancée drives by every day to her office, it’s a shortcut and it’s very bumpy. With the old setup, we could only go at around 20 to 25mph without hurting the back. Ever since we changed to the Flex (still had the TRD sways), things got a lot better and we were able to go at maybe 35 to 40mph before I felt uncomfortable and start jumping around. However, I still had some left and right swing and I had to hold tight to the steering wheel to make it go straight, which I wasn’t able to explain why. But after I put on the Daizen sways, the ride over that area of road is silky smooth now, even with my 19” and pulling at 50mph on that stripe. Yes, it’s very smooth on that piece of bumpy land now, which I am very surprised, considering the size of wheels I am running.
Now I can’t be 100% sure why the pulling left and right feel I had before with the Tein Flex and TRD sways, but maybe it’s since the sways were to stiff with the TRD, one of the wheels is going up a bump, the other side was pulled up as well a little bit, causing it leaving the ground a little bit, thus the car pull to one side. Again I am not 100%, but for sure I am very very happy with the current setup, the ride is so smooth.
5) fairly uneven highway
I thought the changes on the uneven local road were dramatic enough, but on the uneven highway the changes were even more noticeable. For those who live in CA, you probably know of all the freeway “extension” from 4 to 5 lanes, where you find the fast lane to be different left and right, and they are very uneven as well. With my Tein Flex and TRD sways, the cabin wasn’t as bumpy as before anymore, however in order to have good control of the car you have to hold your steering wheel pretty tight, since you will feel that the car was trying to pull left and right often. You also feel that the car is trying to jump left and right as well.
With the Tein Flex and Daizen sways now, things are so different. Inside the cabin the feel is even better than it was with Tein Flex and TRD sways, and the ride was amazingly smooth. Moreover, me as a driver I don’t have to concentrate so much on avoiding the car pulling left and right anymore.
6) highway off ramp
I tried two types of highway off ramp. The first kind was those where you go 270 degrees and got on an overpass or another highway, and the other one is an off ramp and then a sharp right turn to get off the freeway. On both turns I tried to push the car as hard as possible (using my feeling) without breaking lose the rear end.
With both sway bars setups, I was able to push the car to about the same speed on both scenarios. The car still stayed very flat in both setup and inside the cabin you won’t feel that the car tilts more in one case than the other. My fiancée was in the car too so I think it’s safe to say the difference between the car was pretty negligible.
7) empty parking lot “autocross” feel
Well I didn’t really go to any autocross with the car, but in late night time I went to the same empty parking lot (with TRD and Daizen sways) and did some random autocross style driving. This involves very hard acceleration, braking, sharp turns. I even did some serious over steering to see how the car break lose and swing out the tails. I did that with my fiancée in the car (well, not sure how well she felt after that, haha), and I didn’t say a word when I did the turns. So she didn’t know which way I was turning and “prepare” for the turns.
After the autocrossing, personally I felt that the two sway bars performance pretty much identical. The car stays very flat on turns, very sharp handling and the steering response were all pretty much the same. I also asked my fiancée what she thought between the two setups, she couldn’t tell any difference as well. She said that there were almost no body rolls on both setups and she felt very good about them.
On the out of control scenarios where I intentionally took very hard turns until the car swung out, the speed that the car broke lose was pretty much the same too.
8) misc
Some other thoughts I have on the setups. Currently my Daizen sways are in the middle setting, so I wonder what would happen if I put it in the most aggressive setting. Personally I don’t think it would be a good thing for CA driving since the road conditions here are not that perfect, and putting it in the most aggressive settings will make the rear end swing out most easily.
My fiancée she definitely loves the new sways. Like I said she drives back to office every day and I actually didn’t tell her what she should expect with the Daizen sways. Funny enough, she came to me and told me that if the Daizen sways make the car rides softer, since on the shortcut to the office she didn’t feel the harsh ride she have had over the past year. I think this is a very promising result.
So this is my review of the TRD and the Daizen Sways, hopefully up till this point everything has been as objective as they could be. Now what do I think of the two sways for normal daily driving?
Performance wise I think both sways are pretty much the same (with the Daizen in the middle setting), at least from all the tests I could do. The car stays flat on both setups, handling responses are both awesome, and very instant feedback. The only difference I could tell was at the comfort level, where the Daizen sways ride considerably softer than the TRD sways. Now keep in mind this comes with the fact that when I first put on the TRD sways I noticed immediately the harsher ride too. If the area you live in have pretty good road condition, I bet you won’t be able to tell much different between the two setups. But if the road condition isn’t as friendly as you want, you might want to consider what you want.
It used to be the case that TRD was pretty much the only sway bars option you can go for if you want to improve the handling of your GS, but now Daizen Sports Tuning has definitely come out with another setup that’s as good as the TRD. With pretty much the same price, it’s good to see that we all have a choice now
06-29-03, 10:02 PM
#2
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Very nice writeup Rominl, thanks!
06-30-03, 01:28 AM
#6
Originally posted by redgs4
Now where in the heck am I going to come up with the $$$$ to replace my HA's and TRD sways?
Now where in the heck am I going to come up with the $$$$ to replace my HA's and TRD sways?
) BTW, nice write up, Henry.
Last edited by Neo; 06-30-03 at 01:28 AM.
06-30-03, 07:14 AM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Great post... great info...
Trending Topics
06-30-03, 01:09 PM
#9
Re: Rominl?
Originally posted by 400DGRZ
How hard is it too change settings? What is involved?
How hard is it too change settings? What is involved?
07-01-03, 06:08 AM
#10
Lexus Test Driver
Nice, informative and subjective writeup. Great job Henry.
I still plan on keeping my TRD sways. I just hope someone in the future makes polyurethane bushings for the TRD sways.
My opinion is that existing TRD sway owners should keep their sways and do not spend the extra money to switch out. Instead, use the extra money toward getting the Tom's 6-piece links, rear chassis brace and the rear STB!
I rank these 3 mods by TOMS to be as drastic a difference in overall "feel" as compared to when I first installed my TRD sways.
GET IT ...YOU WONT REGRET IT
I still plan on keeping my TRD sways. I just hope someone in the future makes polyurethane bushings for the TRD sways.
My opinion is that existing TRD sway owners should keep their sways and do not spend the extra money to switch out. Instead, use the extra money toward getting the Tom's 6-piece links, rear chassis brace and the rear STB!
I rank these 3 mods by TOMS to be as drastic a difference in overall "feel" as compared to when I first installed my TRD sways.
GET IT ...YOU WONT REGRET IT
07-01-03, 06:24 AM
#11
EV ftw!!!
Originally posted by DrewGS4
My opinion is that existing TRD sway owners should keep their sways and do not spend the extra money to switch out. Instead, use the extra money toward getting the Tom's 6-piece links, rear chassis brace and the rear STB!
I rank these 3 mods by TOMS to be as drastic a difference in overall "feel" as compared to when I first installed my TRD sways.
GET IT ...YOU WONT REGRET IT
My opinion is that existing TRD sway owners should keep their sways and do not spend the extra money to switch out. Instead, use the extra money toward getting the Tom's 6-piece links, rear chassis brace and the rear STB!
I rank these 3 mods by TOMS to be as drastic a difference in overall "feel" as compared to when I first installed my TRD sways.
GET IT ...YOU WONT REGRET IT
Anyone here did mods similar to mine and then did the Toms 6-piece mod later and noticed a drastic difference?
Last edited by Hameed; 07-01-03 at 06:25 AM.
07-01-03, 06:53 AM
#13
EV ftw!!!
Originally posted by lexforlife
hameed
quick question , what did you notice with the toms rear lcb after install.i am thinking about it
hameed
quick question , what did you notice with the toms rear lcb after install.i am thinking about it
I just love my GS!!!!
07-01-03, 07:23 AM
#14
Lexus Test Driver
Hameed, I installed the 3 mods all at different times:
1. installed the rear chassis brace drove around for a week. Suspension felt good and tight
2. Installed the rear STB. This completed the "box analogy" and seemed to work very well in conjuction with the rear chassis brace. At this point you can stop as these mods completes about 80% of the 3 mods total effect.
3. 6-piece links
It you want to take it one step further and install 6 piece links which I did about 2 weeks after completing 1&2 above. This contributes the remaining 20% but is definately noticeable to me and worth the $300 bucks. This removes all the play around the rear wheels. Mods 1&2 firmed the rear chassis up but the 6-piece links reinforce the rear wheels from going left right and sideways. The wheels essentially can only go up and down via the springs. So, essentially when you turn hard, you exert a lot of lateral force on the rear wheels, the links remove all that extra play. Kinda of hard to describe but it works .....ask GS430guy he has them installed as well.
Also remember that there are 2 links that are replaced that are OEM. The other 4 links do not have oem replacements.....so you are getting an extra 4 links of support that reinforce the rear wheels from different angles. This mod is very noticeable especially during very hard cornering.
1. installed the rear chassis brace drove around for a week. Suspension felt good and tight
2. Installed the rear STB. This completed the "box analogy" and seemed to work very well in conjuction with the rear chassis brace. At this point you can stop as these mods completes about 80% of the 3 mods total effect.
3. 6-piece links
It you want to take it one step further and install 6 piece links which I did about 2 weeks after completing 1&2 above. This contributes the remaining 20% but is definately noticeable to me and worth the $300 bucks. This removes all the play around the rear wheels. Mods 1&2 firmed the rear chassis up but the 6-piece links reinforce the rear wheels from going left right and sideways. The wheels essentially can only go up and down via the springs. So, essentially when you turn hard, you exert a lot of lateral force on the rear wheels, the links remove all that extra play. Kinda of hard to describe but it works .....ask GS430guy he has them installed as well.
Also remember that there are 2 links that are replaced that are OEM. The other 4 links do not have oem replacements.....so you are getting an extra 4 links of support that reinforce the rear wheels from different angles. This mod is very noticeable especially during very hard cornering.
Last edited by DrewGS4; 07-01-03 at 08:40 AM.
07-01-03, 07:45 AM
#15
Lexus Champion
Originally posted by DrewGS4
My opinion is that existing TRD sway owners should keep their sways and do not spend the extra money to switch out. Instead, use the extra money toward getting the Tom's 6-piece links, rear chassis brace and the rear STB!
My opinion is that existing TRD sway owners should keep their sways and do not spend the extra money to switch out. Instead, use the extra money toward getting the Tom's 6-piece links, rear chassis brace and the rear STB!
