Celtica

Hi guys, I'm hardly ever on here, but I could use some advice about possibly getting a thicker front sway bar for my '98 SC400. I live in the mountains and although I'm not drifting or taking the turns too hard, the car feels too softly sprung for a car of its caliber, there's just too much body roll for my tastes. Would a front sway bar from Whitleline do the trick ? How about a strut tower brace ? Thanks in advance !

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

On California mountain roads an SC deserves a suspension with more capability for passionate driving than what it comes with stock.

A front swaybar upgrade isn't what you need more than a rear swaybar upgrade. Find a used 93-96 Supra MKIV TT 22mm rear swaybar and either a set of MKIV rear subframe mounts or an aftermarket solid set. The MKIV swaybar endlinks are required.

Whiteline and Daizen both make OEM style swaybar kits for 92-00 SC's but they maintain the original rear geometry and trunk floor anchoring. A factory MKIV TT rear sway bar (plus the subframe mounts) uses a different geometry/anchoring setup while still being a direct bolt-in upgrade.

MKIV 97-98 TT and 93-98 NA rear swaybars have the same differentiated geometry as the 22mm versions but they are 20mm.

A front swaybar upgrade isn't usually necessary with SC's or MKIV's. Further, an MKIV Supra front swaybar, while an upgrade for SC300's, will not fit on any SC400 with the different clearances for the 1UZ engine. Aftermarket front swaybars for SC400's exist if desired.

In addition, the stock shocks and springs would do better with an upgrade if you want sportier driving. From the factory SC's have very soft and progressive-rate springs and soft shocks designed more for cruising comfort rather than handling as a priority.

I still recommend to people the Gixxer_Drew 500/250 suspension which is a DIY assemble-it-yourself coilover system designed by a racing chassis engineer for SC's and MKIV's in his spare time. This uses OEM-style Bilstein AK1242 and AK1243 shocks and linear-rate Hypercoil springs. It is not for lowering the car more than 1-1.5" maximum and there is no shock stiffness adjustability but the handling and control is superb for an all-rounder. There is a thread detailing this on Supraforums as well as a few reviews of the suspension here on our SC sub-forum. You trade the factory SC hovercraft ride quality for much improved control and response at the expense of a bit more stiffness that compares more closely to how a Supra MKIV TT rides from the factory.

A close second would be OEM Supra TT shocks and springs but I think Toyota may have discontinued those factory parts already.

Alternatively there are buy-and-bolt-in coilover systems such as the KW V3. Not sure if that might be overkill for your setup but they are on the pricier side. There are some other good aftermarket coilover brands also.

Front strut tower braces are available, mostly for SC's with JZ engines but some may fit the early and late model 1UZ engine bays. Most of them are made for the MKIV Supra so you will have to research which strut bar product will actually clear your engine's top intake manifold and cover.

A strut bar is not really necessary in an SC, however, except in examples with very modified (and very stiff) or racetrack oriented suspension setups. Unlike cars that come with front McPherson strut suspensions the SC/MKIV platform has a double A-arm fully independent front suspension which does a very good job of isolating road oscillations from the factory. You can add a strut bar of course and many people do and it does improve some stiffness and compliance but it will be a modification that would have more advantage with an SC with a very modified racing suspension for track use rather than in real world street conditions.

I may pick up a front strut bar and/or rear strut tower bar (it would go behind the trunk liner in front of the gas tank) for my own SC eventually but these are absolute last resort suspension considerations for these cars and really are not necessary in 95% of use circumstances. It would be more of something final to do to the car that I'm fully aware is a very overkill and mostly unnecessary modification.

Older chassis designs that made the "Monte Carlo bar" and "K brace" strut bars popular such as older Mustangs and Camaros still see good real world road driving benefits with a strut tower brace. Also more inexpensive economy car chassis designs that are FWD/AWD and use a McPherson strut benefit from a strut bar. Not so much an SC, MKIV Supra or most upmarket cars that have double A-arm fully independent suspensions in the front and rear.

I'm not saying that a strut bar in the front (or rear) of an SC does absolutely nothing... that would be untrue... but in most real world driving circumstances the benefits are going to be negligible compared to a shock/spring/coilover upgrade and a swaybar upgrade.

Your '98 SC400 with 290hp/300ft-lbs has more than enough stock power to throw at those roads including uphill climbs and higher elevation. Now it just needs some more control.

Also, have you upgraded your front brakes? A '95-'00 LS400 front brake caliper conversion is recommended for spirited/high performance driving with an SC.

Celtica

Thanks Kahn, other than a resonator delete, the car is bone stock. Would just the white line rear bar make any difference? I don't know if I can afford both. What about just some lowering springs like Eibach?

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

I haven't had direct experience with the Whiteline rear swaybar, sorry. They are a good company with a good reputation however. I'd suggest searching for any keyworded threads just to see if anyone left some feedback on it. The OEM-style rear swaybar that used to get a lot of attention is the smaller of the two (or three?) Daizen models.

Any good rear swaybar upgrade will make some difference, yes but since the factory rear bar is 20mm if the geometry isn't changed to the MKIV style setup then only a change in diameter and the internal inner diameter or full solid construction will create a difference from stock. Even the 20mm version of the MKIV rear swaybar (with the required subframe mounts or an aftermarket version of them) will feel different at the same diameter as the OEM SC bar just because of the different shape and mounting points.

Shocks and springs, however, might be a better first in line upgrade. Eibach springs I am not sure how to evaluate myself but I think others have commented on what they thought of them? But it's not just the springs. Better shocks make a difference with upgraded springs. I think Tokico Blues exist for the SC and that might be a mild upgrade but I have not heard of an Eibach spring kit and Tokicos compared on the same level with the factory Supra TT suspension, Gixxer suspension or aftermarket coilovers.

Keep in mind that if you ever get into lowering the SC's suspension significantly from stock (talking much more than 2" here) a front driver's side wheel well body harness relocation is highly recommended. It doesn't sound like you're going for the super low flush look with minimal shock rebound clearance that would make this a potential issue but I thought I'd mention it just in case.

Celtica

Thanks again Kahn, you're right, I'd be looking for a mild drop to improve handling and eliminate some wheel gap w/o being slammed. I didn't find any springs for my car from eibach but I saw that tanabe makes a set. I'm not sure how much of a drop or how stiff they are though.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Are they the Tanabe P/N #NF210? Those are supposed to represent lowering of -1.2" front and -0.9" rear. Tanabe is a good company and they've been in the aftermarket suspension business for years. I'd see if you can find any firsthand reviews of those springs on an SC300/400. And still I'd recommend upgrading your shock absorber if you'll be replacing the spring. Tokico Blue shocks are probably the lowest cost go-to option for a simple brand new spring and shock combination.

As for swaybars, the Daizen Sport Tuning set for SC300/400's is #S1-2005.

Also I'd highly recommend buying a Daizen steering rack bushing replacement set as those tend to wear out over many years and can allow some "shimmy" play in the front steering. It's about $40-$60 for the poly replacement bushing kit.

Then if you suspect your front lower control arms have gone bad those might do with replacing also. Normally we recommend new OEM 93-96 Supra MKIV front lower control arms due to their better/sportier/more compliant rubber formulation and lower cost while visually being the same part (both cars have the same front suspension designs) but lately those may be in short supply. Alternatives are the more expensive OEM Lexus front LCAs you'd normally get from a dealer and the 97-98 Supra MKIV front LCA's. One aftermarket front LCA option exists and one as yet unproven "factory replacement" option also exists.

With OEM LCA's my advice is to find a Lexus (or Toyota) dealer that sells the brand part you want at an online discount, usually through a "Trademotion" site.

In fact, even given the age of any late model SC's I would at least inspect and verify the health of the front LCA's and the steering rack bushings before doing any other upgrade to quell a loose suspension. If everything is compliant and tight even with a current alignment and good tires then worry about those later... but they will have to be addressed at some point even if they are still healthy now.

To be clear I am not trying to alarm you or suggest that you should prematurely replace any rubber bushing parts that haven't been verified to be worn out but as any of these cars get older these are standard things to look out for and address in the handling department.

Celtica

Thanks Kahn. That helps tons and yes, the nf210 is the spring kit I was looking at. The shocks were replaced last year but they're oem replacements that felt former at first but quickly resorted back to mush.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

^^ The OEM shocks are ok and will last a long time... but leave a lot to be desired from a handling and response standpoint. I don't think even the Toyota Soarer Z30's had a much stiffer suspension from the factory. If the Tanabe #NF210's are designated as a direct bolt-in for the factory suspension then I'd definitely pair those with a set of Tokico Blues. There are better setups once you get into off the shelf coilovers (or the Gixxer_Drew setup with TRD-ish Bilsteins) but for the money that's probably a good budget combination for a spirited cruising setup.

I wish I knew specifics on those springs such as the front and rear rates and whether or not they are linear rate or progressive rate. Also, what other SC owners think of them long term.

With this chassis, adding handling capability I'd say goes in an ascending scale like this:

1) Check or replace front LCA's and steering rack bushings. Possibly differential mount bushings if necessary.
2) Good high performance summer tire (with good rain traction rating & reviews). Include different wheels and possibly a staggered F&R set.
3) Good shock and good spring upgrade combination, DIY coilover setup or a good off-the-shelf aftermarket coilover setup
4) Rear swaybar upgrade
5) Front swaybar upgrade (if buying a matched set or if desired)
6) If using an MKIV TT rear swaybar, possibly consider a "Lance" alignment spec but this is a larger subject
7) LSD. Either an MKIV TT Auto Torsen T-1 (1.5-way gear type) or a clutch-type 2-way OS Giken, Kaaz, Cusco or used Supra TT Auto TRD. OS Giken is the only aftermarket LSD manufacturer who makes a 1.5-way clutch type LSD for our cars (very pricey at that).

And as an addendum:

8) Somewhere before reaching #7, a front brake caliper upgrade to have enough stopping power and fade resistance to properly control the vehicle if fully making use of the expanded handling capabilities. 92-00 SC400 and 98-00 SC300 brakes are good and better than 92-97 SC300 brakes but it's still a worthwhile and night and day improvement to upgrade the front calipers and pads just the same.

Blkexcoupe

iTrader: (8)

For sway bars, the only new option with oem mounting points is Whiteline. Daizen bars are discontinued.

Springs and shocks/coilovers will help more than the sway bar for body roll. The tanabe NF210 and Tein S tech springs are the only springs that are still readily available for the SC. There are a few more options if you decide to go with supra springs (require matching shocks).

If I was on a budget and looking for a very subtle drop with improved handling, then I would go with the Tein Street Advance z. It's basically a tein s tech spring matched with a tein branded shock. It has an adjustable damper, allows for subtle height adjustments, and the cost is similar to springs and shocks.

houndofFOX

Currently running a Whiteline rear sway bar as the only suspension modification on a 99 SC4.
The car now has a bit less body roll after installation, but that was most likely because the stock bar was not connected properly (bad sway bar link).
Like Kahn said, it would be better to get coilovers and wider tires first before sway bars. I went with 245F/265R, which has provided much better grip compared to the stock 225s.

Celtica

Thanks guys, I'm on a limited budget, so if anything, I can only afford maybe the springs or the sway bar. I've noticed that the car sits so a little lower on the driver side and I don't know what causes it. Replacing the shocks last year didn't change it, could it be the stock mushy springs and would the the tanabe nf210s even it out with just a nice subtle drop ?

Boergy

iTrader: (2)

i had the same problem with the lower driver side with the Supra Eibach springs and Supra Bilstein shocks. i modified the lower shock mount. now have the car on both sides the same high. also i used in my 97 SC400 the Supra TT front and rear sway bar without problems (rear mounts modified) . Now the Titan Motorsport sway bars for the Supra. for this i used a smaller oilfilter to have enough space between the sway bar and the filter. the oem filter is to big.

thread with Solutionkit https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sus...p-problem.html

here my thread with the mods https://www.clublexus.com/forums/bui...-sc400-18.html



greets

Tom

Celtica

Hi again guys, thank you for all of your helpful information. My budget has since dwindled as I've had to take care of more pressing matters which leaves me with maybe just enough to get a whiteline strut tower bar for $135 or a Cusco stb for $189 or push my budget and get the tananbe nf210 springs for about $245. I do want less body roll but I'm seriously considering just getting a strut tower brace and calling it a day as it would be the more budget friendly choice for me so I'm really tempted to go that route, even if it's just a small but hopefully noticeable improvement.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Celtica, honestly if you've had to scale back a bit for now with your investment in the SC, don't worry with a strut tower bar. Really. I mean technically it does help in SOME circumstances on a track but these cars don't really need a strut bar in 95% of owner use circumstances due to the very good double wishbone suspension front and rear. A strut bar in an SC is not cosmetic only to be clear-- it does serve have a purpose-- but it is more of a last resort option after having addressed other areas of the suspension. In cars with McPherson Strut suspension designs it is much more of an immediately noticeable improvement.

Stick to your goal of directly addressing body roll and hang onto the cash you have if things are tight at the moment. I would put the amount aside that you are comfortable with and add to it later to get yourself a spring and shock upgrade or one of the lower priced Tein coilovers (I forget which one was recommended here for SC's). OR... maybe those Tanabe NF210's will do the trick as they are good springs made for our cars from a good company. I would however pair them with some Tokico Blue shocks when you install them... and that's a tough thing to suggest to you since it's more money in the immediate: to wait and do your spring upgrade with a shock upgrade.

Nonetheless, the best use of a limited budget to reduce your body roll will probably be the Tanabe NF210 spring set. It will just be more work to go in all over again to upgrade the shocks, too... and you will need to to see even better results.

I completely understand where you're coming from looking at the strut bars available but trust me and make that a later purchase as a finishing touch to the suspension. I am not running a strut bar myself in my SC yet. I will eventually... but as a final rather than first suspension upgrade.

And again, if the costs are tight for you right now there is no harm in waiting until you can spend a little more on a better month. Or maybe just buying the Tanabe springs and waiting to install them with upgraded shocks is another good option just so that you have the parts you need for the long term goal.

Whatever you choose I do feel you should focus any funds on upgrading the shocks+springs first as that will more directly help to achieve your immediate goal of reducing body roll in your SC. And then after that don't forget about upgrading the tires (and later wheels to something wider) to give you improved grip to handle that reduced suspension movement.

Take your time and don't rush your modifications, I say

Celtica

Hey, thank you again Kahn, I'm planning to take your sound advice and wait to try and upgrade the springs/shocks in the future. I'll need to look into that shock mount mod that at the op mentioned to address the uneven height on the driver's side but it will be worth it when the time comes. Thanks buddy, happy holidays !