SydneyAust

Hi Gville350,

I am interested in your comments re the PBR Axxis Ultimate Pads ... Which pad do you use on the front and how many track days do you get out of the front and rear pads ... and rotors, if you know.

Many thanks,

Matthew

Gville350

iTrader: (10)

Yeah, I used this pad back like 10 yrs ago; plenty of new comers with similar compounds out there I'm sure.

Hard to believe much tooling would be needed for as common as the size/shape of the stock IS350 front pads. But we're just the consumers, what do we know. LOL!

I've not experienced a true "track day" in my 2IS, only a couple auto-x events. I used OEM high-friction on the first...worked great; on the second I used StopTech Street pads. The Streets didn't offer the initial bite that I prefer in a pad; but was fine for daily usage. I've now got Akebono ceramic pads in the Lex, and I prefer them to the Streets. Greater initial bite that I like so much. Also have a used set of high-friction OEM pads AND a new set of Yellows I have yet to try out. Guess I'm good with pads for the next 100k easy! LOL

SydneyAust

Hi Gville350,

Many thanks for your prompt response and thanks for the feedback!

Regards,

Matthew

Sportskid1

iTrader: (1)

So far I have been really liking my XP10/8 combination for the track. I remove the XP10's from the front in between track days due to the unbearable screeching but the XP8's in the rear are tolerable so I just leave them in for daily driving due to sheer laziness. So far I have 8-9 track days (4-5 20 min sessions) on my front XP10's and I probably have enough pad for 2-3 more track days. I am very happy about how they are wearing. The rear XP8's lasted 7 track days and about 1.5 years of daily driving before they were toast and they took the rotors with them. Thy really do kill the rotors during daily driving but at track temps the rotors wear much better. The front rotors are looking good though with 8-9 track days and daily driving on StopTech pads. They are showing some stress cracks due to the heat the XP-10's deliver but are holding up well. All in all I can;t complain compared to the 2 track days I was getting out of any "Street and Track" pad I tried to run.

Did a track day last weekend at the Streets of Willow last weekend and I finally broke the 1:31 mark. Combination of getting to know the track better and possibly learning how to drive is starting to show. Funny to see how people get so shocked when grandma's Lexus is in the rear view of their dedicated track car through the corners. We need more IS's to show up though. I never see them out there.

SydneyAust

Hi Sportskid1,

Many thanks for your response.

It is great to hear how much longer these track pads last compared to the crossover pads ... and as you have previously noted, it is not just the significant number of additional track days you get out of them, but the number of consecutive laps you can do before you get any fade ... when coupled together you can see why the conventional wisdom of a two pad strategy stacks up so well.

Based on your earlier posts I am also going to give track pads a go.

Given my familiarity with Project Mu and Matt M's comments from SpeedFreaks USA I have opted for the Project Mu Club Racer RC09, which I received last week ... They certainly were notably heavier in weight than the Yellowstuff or HC800 (Project MU).

No doubt the RC09's will squeal like every other track pad that is also doubled as a daily driver, but I need to get through the Yellowstuff first and then I will swap over to these and let you know.

I have seen a couple of other IS350's, however I have only completed 8 Track Days since I started last November.

I know it is a left of field choice and it is overlooked by many, but I have been really happy with my choice as I needed a daily driver that could double as a track car on occasion. It also needed four doors as I have two young kids. For the money this was the best option and it is certainly easy to live with day to day, which in reality is how the car is used 99% of the time.

I also think many have not thought to look at a Lexus as a daily driver & possible track day car, unless it was an ISF or RCF, and as such failed to note how relatively powerful the IS350 is, and how well balanced the chassis was. I know people are at first interested in seeing how the IS350 goes and then are somewhat surprised with the lap times you get in these things. Being a rear-wheel drive they are also so much fun!

The Australian write-ups I have read certainly suggest the IS350 is much more practical and liveable day to day than an ISF. Additionally they equally love the Jekyll and Hyde personality, combined with the rear-drive, tail happy, fun factor it offers ... The best of both worlds. I have attached the links below if you are interested ... You will note that these reviews are based on 2011 or later IS350's as Australia didn't get this model until 2011 even though we had the ISF since 2008.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/136593/l...iew-road-test/

http://www.motoring.com.au/lexus-is-...rm-test-25110/

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/510...t-drive-review

Most of the track days I have done is at a relatively short track called Wakefield ... 1.4miles / 2.2km ... Best lap time 1.13.5 (on well worn street tyres) ... The Lexus ISF in the hands of a professional driver achieved 1.12.0 (on street tyres) ... When you check the reference noted in Fastest Laps or on Wakefield's website, this is a verified time in the dry ... I also noted though that it was set prior to 2010 and an LSD equipped ISF ... Equally I am certain that in the hands of a professional driver the IS350 would be a lot closer to the ISF than what I achieved.

Nevertheless I have just fitted Michelin Pilot Super Sports (225/40/18 & 255/40/18) ... A step up from what I had previously and as such I am obviously hoping to improve on my previous best.

Whilst I will still be on the Yellowstuff next Track Day this won't really impact my fastest lap time as the street tyres start to overheat a little after 1-2 laps and just prior to any brake fade.

Further to the above I also noted your comment re semi-slicks and their potential impact on the standard brake kit and DBA T3 4000 series rotors ... Do you have anything to add in this respect or did you switch back to street tyres as intimated? ... Interestingly in Australia I can only get my hands on the T2 series rotors, but they are pretty good just the same.

Thanks again for your feedback, it is certainly the most accurate information I have been able to find in the Lexus forums and certainly matches the best to my initial experience i.e. Was very happy with the crossover pad in the beginning, but that good feeling soon gave way to a sense of frustration with their lack of durability as you start to better find the limits of your car.

Regards,

Matthew

SydneyAust

Hi All,

Just finished my first track day on track pads yesterday, the Project MU Club Racer RC09 that Matt M from SpeedFreaks USA recommended.

I fitted these pads on October 4, so have had 4 weeks worth of daily driving mostly in stop start peak hour traffic ... 24km / 15m each way, per day ... so approximately 1000km / 600m in the past month.

After bedding the pads in properly, I have had no problems with brake squeal ... maybe it will come in time, but I am very pleasantly surprised how quiet these track pads are.

On the track and as noted by Sportskid1 there is a significant difference in how long you can run these pads compared to any crossover pads.

The track in Sydney is known as Sydney Motor Sport Park / Eastern Creek and is 3.94km 2.45m long with top speeds in the IS350 of just on 200km/hr / 125m/hr, coupled with a number of heavy braking corners.

I had 6 x 15min sessions and I still have at least 80% of the pad left, which is so much better than any crossover pad where I would have gone through more than 50% of the pad, and this would have only been achieved by interspersing 1 or 2 hot laps with a cool down lap.

Whilst I did experience brake fade, it was only after 4 consecutive laps, and only at one point on the track. The recovery time of the RC09's was a lot quicker than any crossover pad and you could then do another 4 consecutive hot laps, whereas with a crossover pad I would only get another 1 or 2 laps. Another point worth noting was the day's temperature; 31 Celsius / 88 Fahrenheit ... so pretty warm.

I also use the stock brake system with the exception of Dot 4 brake fluid & DBA T2 Slotted Street Rotors which are relatively inexpensive ... in fact my track pads cost more! The rotors have so far stood up well, just showing signs of surface crazing on the fronts only.

In sum I must say that I am very happy with the switch to track pads, in this case the Project MU Club Racer RC09's. While it has only been a month of daily driving, the fact that I have had no problems with brake squeal after they were properly bedded in, means I can use them for this dual role and are happy to live with the abrasive nature and associated higher dust levels at street temperatures ... just wished I had taken the advice earlier!

Gville350

iTrader: (10)

Good to hear about the positive results from those pads.

redspencer

iTrader: (1)

Nice review of the Project MU Club Racer RC09 pads. Please keep us posted on the long-term livability of using these pads as a daily driver (particularly with brake squeal, cold-temp stopping distance, and abrasiveness to the rotors). I've continued to use EBC Yellow Stuff as my default dual-role pad since I prefer my car's set-up as a run-what-you-brung OEM-style configuration.

If the RC09 pads do a better job than the EBCs on the track and are as tolerable for daily driving, I may give these pads a try sometime in the future.

SpeedFreaksUSA

iTrader: (1)

I didn't want to say much until you had a chance to try them but I'm happy to hear you're having a similar experience with the club racers! It is unbelievable how street friendly they can be given how aggressive they are- I've run though three full sets of Club Racers on my S2000 and they make virtually zero noise and the dust is a lot less than any other track pad I've tested. They are still somewhat abrasive on rotors when cold (compared to a true street pad) but nothing like the Carbotechs and even with many street miles I still end up cracking my rotors well before they wear thin (however my car sees A LOT of track time ). Glad you like them so far!

-Matt M.

SydneyAust

Hi All,

Firstly Mike many thanks for your prompt response and feedback / insights, as always it very much appreciated! I have also made a note further down re my experience using crossover pads and rotor cracks being more likely ... please correct me though if I am wrong.

Almost another month of daily driving following the last track day.

As you may know the abrasive nature of track pads removes the transfer layer pretty quickly during street application ... just a couple of days.

I have now noted some brake squeal ... just at low slow speed stops ... less than 20km/13m/hr ... This only happens with light application of the brake ... if you press a bit harder it immediately stops any squeal.

I have also noticed some 'light' brake squeal when crawling at the same speeds, but you can only ever hear this in a tunnel or underground car park, never on the open road.

Having read a bit about track pads and their associated brake squeal at street temperatures, which can range from acceptable to thoroughly intolerable, my experience is that the Project MU RC09's is at the acceptable end of the spectrum.

Personally I am happy to live with a little brake squeal, given the significant difference these track pads offer in respect of track day wear, consecutive laps and recovery; not to mention the significant time saved not having to change pads all the time.

I have now completed two track days on these pads and have at least 60% of the pad still left. This is so much better than any crossover pad, which wouldn't last even two track days, coupled with the higher temperatures they run at, they have a higher risk of cracking a rotor, which I have experienced twice on crossover pads.

Rotor wear seems good to me ... again just crazing on the fronts ... but equally it is too early to have an informed opinion until I have had more time with them.

Regards,

Matthew

SydneyAust

Hi All,

I have completed another two track days, plus the daily driving in between.

Again I must say how happy I am with moving across to track pad, in my case Project MU Club Racer RC09. These track pads offer a significant difference to crossover pads (EBC YellowStuff or Project MU HC800) in terms of;
- No of consecutive laps
- Recovery time
- Wear

As mentioned I was lucky to get two track days out of any crossover pad; in fact it was more like 1.5 track days; and even then that would be less than half the total number of hot laps that I now get using the RC09's.

Having completed 4 track days (6 x 15min sessions) and the respective daily driving over the past 2.5 months, I continue to be very happy with my switch to them.

The RC09's are certainly more aggressive as a daily driver, so you get the associated brake dust, noticeably more than a crossover pad. You also get the typical low speed stop brake squeal ... in my case light application from 10km / 6m per hour (which is less than I initially thought). As mentioned previously brake squeal can range from acceptable through to totally unbearable. Again I have personally found the RC09's to be on the quite acceptable end of the range!

With regard to the wear - 4 Track Days
- Fronts - I have just on 50% left
- Rears - I now need to replace - 2mm to 3mm left

I also installed new rotors all round after my first track day as the others I had damaged when I exhausted my crossover pad and had to drive home using the metal shoes as pads! The new rotors are in really good shape with no surface crazing whatsoever ... I assume this because the RC09's are much better able to cope with the demands of the track and therefore never get as hot as the crossover pads.

Finally I can't note any wear when using the RC09's as a daily driver ... I have taken many photos both before and after track days and have been closely monitoring this as I had read that using track pads as a daily driver would lead to greater wear as they are abrasive in their non-operating temperature environment ... yes they are abrasive, as in the noticeably higher dust levels, however I genuinely cannot notice any wear during daily driving ... and that goes for the rotors too ... however again it is too early to tell in respect of the rotors, although I expect to have a more informed opinion on this after using them for 12 months.

Regards,

Matthew

Gville350

iTrader: (10)

Great update and continued review!

redspencer

iTrader: (1)

I'm glad this thread is still around. I've been contemplating on whether to go with the Carbotech XP10 or Project Mu RC09 for my next track pads (since I need to retire my EBC Yellow Stuff pads due to them crystallizing and squealing horribly after my last track event). After re-reading all the good points about the RC09 Club Racers, I plan on placing an order for a front and rear set very soon.

EDIT: RC09 Club Racer pads have been ordered and I'm waiting for them to arrive from Japan so I can test them out at a future track day.

SydneyAust

Hi RedSpencer,

I just fitted my 3rd set of Project MU RC09's earlier this week.

I have been very happy with them as a track pad and everyday driver.

As an everyday driver I found that I get 'light' squeal on slow speed stops. As I have said before I find this level of squeal very acceptable, particularly in light of the fact that you only need to change your pads at least four times less often than I needed to change the EBC Yellowstuff pads. You may recall Sportskid1's comments were he found the Carbotech XP10 front pads squeal to be intolerable ... the rear XP8's though he could live with.

Further to the above point, I have now noticed you in fact get no break squeal when then RC09's are brand new. It is not until you have worn down the 'top coat' that you may start to notice the low break squeal ... typically after a track day ... not straight after mind you as you have achieved a very good transfer layer, but a few days after that once you have worn it off.

I typically get 4 to 5 track days out of a set of front pads, and 4 out of a set of rears ... the rear pad size, and rotor for that matter, are just so much smaller, that, even though the front does the majority of the braking, the rear wear rate is a bit more ... I also think this could be due to the possibly higher rear pad temperatures as a result of the relatively small pad surface area as well as the rear rotor size and thickness ... I have no concrete evidence for this, apart from the higher wear obviously.

Of note is the fact that I am changing the front pads out when the wear rate shows less than 50% ... in fact the first half of the front pad lasts at least 4 track days, however the last half of the pad quickly wears away ... I suspect that this is due to the 'exponential' increase in pad heat due to the reduced width ... I have also noted similar comments about this sort of wear from other drivers using all different types of track pads ... which makes me think it is a relatively universal experience ... certainly my mates I have been doing this for a while say the same thing ... after being caught out previously with this wear I have thought the prudent thing to do is change the pad early.

No problem with the rotors, and whilst the brake dust levels are noticeably higher the rotors continue to show little signs of wear apart from the surface crazing on the fronts.

SpeedFreaksUSA

iTrader: (1)

We can help you out with either brand. Personally, I'm partial towards the club racers since they are more street friendly than the carbotechs but depending on how often you plan on tracking and your tolerance to dust and noise, you may be alright. Carbotech also offers a "pre-bed" service to their pads for an extra $20/set and we have found this to make them a little more street friendly but there will still be noise if you street the car long enough and scrape away all of the transfer layer.

-Matt M.