Vlamos versus Branz rubber bushings
04-14-10, 09:29 AM
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Vlamos versus Branz rubber bushings
What is the verdict here on the rubber bushings from Vlamos and Branz?
What do people prefer in terms of comfort, durability, and pricing?
What do people prefer in terms of comfort, durability, and pricing?
06-07-10, 07:45 PM
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Branz bushes or new arms are the best options, I had Vlamos bushes in my car and they only lasted 5000 miles at which pointed they developed considerable noise under load.
I thought the ball joints had failed but inspection of the arms showed ball joints all ok but tearing in LCA bushes and many bushes going very soft ie the front upper arms one bush on each side was very soft using a pry bar there was excessive movement.
I replaced the upper arms with good used units and replaced the LCA bushes with Branz bushes. The car drives great now and finally drives like it should with, no noises better ride and less arm flex. The car doesn't have the tendency to wonder over the road like it did with Vlamos bushes and is a joy to drive for long distances.
When the Vlamos bushes were brand new the additional arm flex compared with old OEM bushes was immediately noticeable, as was additional harshness over bumps. With OEM bushes and Branz bushes the car seemed to ride over bumps where asl with Vlamos bushes the car seemed to absorbe them, and the impacts transmitted more NVH and harshess into the chassi with Vlamos bushes compared with Branz and OEM bushes.
I thought the ball joints had failed but inspection of the arms showed ball joints all ok but tearing in LCA bushes and many bushes going very soft ie the front upper arms one bush on each side was very soft using a pry bar there was excessive movement.
I replaced the upper arms with good used units and replaced the LCA bushes with Branz bushes. The car drives great now and finally drives like it should with, no noises better ride and less arm flex. The car doesn't have the tendency to wonder over the road like it did with Vlamos bushes and is a joy to drive for long distances.
When the Vlamos bushes were brand new the additional arm flex compared with old OEM bushes was immediately noticeable, as was additional harshness over bumps. With OEM bushes and Branz bushes the car seemed to ride over bumps where asl with Vlamos bushes the car seemed to absorbe them, and the impacts transmitted more NVH and harshess into the chassi with Vlamos bushes compared with Branz and OEM bushes.
06-09-10, 07:22 PM
#4
Branz bushes or new arms are the best options, I had Vlamos bushes in my car and they only lasted 5000 miles at which pointed they developed considerable noise under load.
I thought the ball joints had failed but inspection of the arms showed ball joints all ok but tearing in LCA bushes and many bushes going very soft ie the front upper arms one bush on each side was very soft using a pry bar there was excessive movement.
I replaced the upper arms with good used units and replaced the LCA bushes with Branz bushes. The car drives great now and finally drives like it should with, no noises better ride and less arm flex. The car doesn't have the tendency to wonder over the road like it did with Vlamos bushes and is a joy to drive for long distances.
When the Vlamos bushes were brand new the additional arm flex compared with old OEM bushes was immediately noticeable, as was additional harshness over bumps. With OEM bushes and Branz bushes the car seemed to ride over bumps where asl with Vlamos bushes the car seemed to absorbe them, and the impacts transmitted more NVH and harshess into the chassi with Vlamos bushes compared with Branz and OEM bushes.
I thought the ball joints had failed but inspection of the arms showed ball joints all ok but tearing in LCA bushes and many bushes going very soft ie the front upper arms one bush on each side was very soft using a pry bar there was excessive movement.
I replaced the upper arms with good used units and replaced the LCA bushes with Branz bushes. The car drives great now and finally drives like it should with, no noises better ride and less arm flex. The car doesn't have the tendency to wonder over the road like it did with Vlamos bushes and is a joy to drive for long distances.
When the Vlamos bushes were brand new the additional arm flex compared with old OEM bushes was immediately noticeable, as was additional harshness over bumps. With OEM bushes and Branz bushes the car seemed to ride over bumps where asl with Vlamos bushes the car seemed to absorbe them, and the impacts transmitted more NVH and harshess into the chassi with Vlamos bushes compared with Branz and OEM bushes.
BTW, there is quite a bit of information on Planet Soarer about the VFT bushes, and msny references about the high quality of them. Andrew is also a stand up guy, and he stands behind his products. If you have an issue, it is my belief he will resolve it with you, and quickly. Everything I have received from Andrew has been of excellent quality.
Ryan
06-09-10, 08:52 PM
#5
I took this excerpt rom PlanetSoarer regarding the Vlamos bushes...Sounds like frozenpond may have not installed the bushes correctly:
From PlanetSoarer:
"Correct installation is vital
Andrew Vlamos has this to offer on correct installation:
Ever spent the weekend replacing those old flogged out suspension bushes ?
Like the factory originals, the centre sleeve in most replacement rubber suspension bushes is not designed to rotate within the bush. Rather the outer casting and centre sleeve are bonded together via a rubber membrane. Its the flexibility of this membrane that allows the suspension to move up and down.
So if you jack up the car and tighten up the bolts with the suspension sagging at full droop, the bushes will twist to nearly the full limit of the flexibility when you drop the car off the jack and the suspension moves back up to static ride height.
A few miles down the road, when the suspension tries to move up over a bump, there's no give left in the bushes and they start tearing themselves in half.
The moral of the story is : If you are fitting new bushes or if you are simply lowering your car, it is important that you first loosen the cam bolts / sleeve bolts when altering the height of your car in particular SC400s as their bushes have (shock absorbing slots) and to a lesser degree the SC300 as their bushes are (solid) and it is paramount to wait until the car is sitting back on the ground before finally tightening the suspension mounting bolts.
This way the bushes are not pre-stressed or deformed at the static ride height and have plenty of give in them to allow the suspension to move through its full range of travel without tearing those spanky new bushes to pieces."
Ryan
From PlanetSoarer:
"Correct installation is vital
Andrew Vlamos has this to offer on correct installation:
Ever spent the weekend replacing those old flogged out suspension bushes ?
Like the factory originals, the centre sleeve in most replacement rubber suspension bushes is not designed to rotate within the bush. Rather the outer casting and centre sleeve are bonded together via a rubber membrane. Its the flexibility of this membrane that allows the suspension to move up and down.
So if you jack up the car and tighten up the bolts with the suspension sagging at full droop, the bushes will twist to nearly the full limit of the flexibility when you drop the car off the jack and the suspension moves back up to static ride height.
A few miles down the road, when the suspension tries to move up over a bump, there's no give left in the bushes and they start tearing themselves in half.
The moral of the story is : If you are fitting new bushes or if you are simply lowering your car, it is important that you first loosen the cam bolts / sleeve bolts when altering the height of your car in particular SC400s as their bushes have (shock absorbing slots) and to a lesser degree the SC300 as their bushes are (solid) and it is paramount to wait until the car is sitting back on the ground before finally tightening the suspension mounting bolts.
This way the bushes are not pre-stressed or deformed at the static ride height and have plenty of give in them to allow the suspension to move through its full range of travel without tearing those spanky new bushes to pieces."
Ryan
06-09-10, 10:50 PM
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...Sounds like frozenpond may have not installed the bushes correctly:
From PlanetSoarer:
"Correct installation is vital
...So if you jack up the car and tighten up the bolts with the suspension sagging at full droop, the bushes will twist to nearly the full limit of the flexibility when you drop the car off the jack and the suspension moves back up to static ride height.
...
Ryan
I was shocked to see a CA replacement DIY (erroneously suggesting this exact method be used) that had been stickied here on this forum for a full two years...ARGHH!!
You gotta be more than a little careful of some of the stuff posted as fact.
06-10-10, 12:28 AM
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Vlamous bushes were installed correctly as were Branz bushes and yes it is vital that the arms are at ride height and not full extension before they are tightened. There was no issue with the installation if there was the bushes would have probably failed in 50 miles not 5000miles.
There are a number of people that have had failures of Vlamous bushes in recent times yet back in the early days they seemed to last ok. Perhaps a change to the rubber compound? I have personally seen 3 cars which Vlamous bushes have failed after 10,000-12,000miles which have all been recent within the last 12 months. All bushes were correctly installed 2 of these cars the bushes where installed by sports and luxary cars which have installed vlamos bushes in dozzens of soarer over the years so I highly doubt there was an installation problem.
If you think the Vlamos bush failures I have experienced were related to incorrect installation can you please expain when the front upper arms bush have failed one bush per arm? Being the forward bush on the left arm and the rear bush on the right arm.
The front upper bushes were not torn, after the arm was removed they still looked to be in perfect condition but one of the two bushes on each arm had become very soft. There was considerable flex when loaded with a pry bar when in the car and once removed the were a noticeable difference in rubber hardness. (I do not have duro readings to confirm this but I might be able to get some soon).
Dispite the failures, Vlamos bushes don't drive as well as OEM bushes or Branz bushes. The extra arm flex and wandering combined with hashness over impacks makes them not as good as OEM. There have been reports after replacing completely stuffed torn OEM bushes with vlamos bushes that the car was like new and of Vlamos bushes being OEM quality. Sure the car will drive much better with brand new Vlamos than stuffed OEM bushes but IMO they are longer the best option.
When there was no other rubber bush available I used them over urethane bushes but now there is and after my personal experience I would recommend the Branz bushes as being a better quality ride and performance.
As the Branz bushes have only recently been installed I cannot comment on there life.
There are a number of people that have had failures of Vlamous bushes in recent times yet back in the early days they seemed to last ok. Perhaps a change to the rubber compound? I have personally seen 3 cars which Vlamous bushes have failed after 10,000-12,000miles which have all been recent within the last 12 months. All bushes were correctly installed 2 of these cars the bushes where installed by sports and luxary cars which have installed vlamos bushes in dozzens of soarer over the years so I highly doubt there was an installation problem.
If you think the Vlamos bush failures I have experienced were related to incorrect installation can you please expain when the front upper arms bush have failed one bush per arm? Being the forward bush on the left arm and the rear bush on the right arm.
The front upper bushes were not torn, after the arm was removed they still looked to be in perfect condition but one of the two bushes on each arm had become very soft. There was considerable flex when loaded with a pry bar when in the car and once removed the were a noticeable difference in rubber hardness. (I do not have duro readings to confirm this but I might be able to get some soon).
Dispite the failures, Vlamos bushes don't drive as well as OEM bushes or Branz bushes. The extra arm flex and wandering combined with hashness over impacks makes them not as good as OEM. There have been reports after replacing completely stuffed torn OEM bushes with vlamos bushes that the car was like new and of Vlamos bushes being OEM quality. Sure the car will drive much better with brand new Vlamos than stuffed OEM bushes but IMO they are longer the best option.
When there was no other rubber bush available I used them over urethane bushes but now there is and after my personal experience I would recommend the Branz bushes as being a better quality ride and performance.
As the Branz bushes have only recently been installed I cannot comment on there life.
Last edited by frozenpod; 06-10-10 at 12:48 AM.
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