Big Brake Upgrade Myths and Fact *LONG Discussion*
03-28-08, 08:01 PM
#34
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I have stock sc400 brakes and my car stops great .My brake system runs with nitrogen tank for better braking so my upgrade was there from factory .My sc3 brake would of heat up instantly over 100 mph but never had those problems with the sc4 .If i felt my life was in danger because of my brakes then i would be looking into an upgrade but it does the job without any problems so stock sc4 brakes ftw!
03-31-08, 04:32 PM
#35
Interesting thread. I am picking up a 99 SC300 with Supra TT front brakes and stock rears with Brembo rotors (Hawk pads all around). I was wondering if I should bother to get Supra TT rears as well; opinions and reasoning welcome!
03-31-08, 04:57 PM
#36
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I have a sc300 with TT fronts and stock rears. I think that it works great at the track and if I do put TT rears on it will most likely just be for the look and nothing more.
04-01-08, 08:58 AM
#37
Everything you guys have listed is right, but I think you guys have not taken a large variable here into consideration.
A 4-pot brake requires more brake pressure to push the cylinders.
Thus, when you are at the point on the pedal where the stock brakes apply X amount of force to the disc brake...
when you have 2 more pistons now, you will have to push the pedal further create more pressure to achieve the same amount of force on the caliper.
this is why you get that dead pedal feel on top.
as a side affect of this, you are indeed changing your brake bias, because at that point where the front brakes apply the same force, the rear stock brakes are at a higher pressure than they would normally be.
all is not lost though, because I am only talking about piston force here. the added surface area of the 4 pot brakes will help stop it faster with less force which helps balance out this bias a bit to where you don't notice it.
To say that matching tt rears to tt fronts will not correct the obvious bias created in a precisely tuned hydraulic system is simply wrong.
will you notice it, maybe not, but thats why it was made like that.
A 4-pot brake requires more brake pressure to push the cylinders.
Thus, when you are at the point on the pedal where the stock brakes apply X amount of force to the disc brake...
when you have 2 more pistons now, you will have to push the pedal further create more pressure to achieve the same amount of force on the caliper.
this is why you get that dead pedal feel on top.
as a side affect of this, you are indeed changing your brake bias, because at that point where the front brakes apply the same force, the rear stock brakes are at a higher pressure than they would normally be.
all is not lost though, because I am only talking about piston force here. the added surface area of the 4 pot brakes will help stop it faster with less force which helps balance out this bias a bit to where you don't notice it.
To say that matching tt rears to tt fronts will not correct the obvious bias created in a precisely tuned hydraulic system is simply wrong.
will you notice it, maybe not, but thats why it was made like that.
04-01-08, 09:49 AM
#38
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I think what it comes down to is if you have ever tried to stop in an sc300 at over 120 mph you know that the brakes are worthless and at any speed the TT brakes brake very hard with very little effort. As far as the brake bias goes I would rather have a bit too little in the rear than too much.
04-01-08, 02:19 PM
#39
I think what it comes down to is if you have ever tried to stop in an sc300 at over 120 mph you know that the brakes are worthless and at any speed the TT brakes brake very hard with very little effort. As far as the brake bias goes I would rather have a bit too little in the rear than too much.
supra tt up front and stock out back is good.
supra tt all around is better.
as for ls400 vs supra tt i think its quite obvious one was designed for a sports car and one was designed for a luxury sedan. performance wise both are good.
feel free to choose accordingly.
04-03-08, 06:09 PM
#40
The word "Brake Bias" seems to confuse and scare the people on this particular LS or Supra TT brake swap. I've been there and done that and honestly, I don't see the crap brake bias comes into play. The LS brake stops a lot better in all street & weather conditions. It stops better and smooth, too. But make sure when you swap in the new LS for the front, change the new pads for the stock rear as well to balance out.
The brake bias might be present if you swap in like a huge brake system in the front and leave the rear stock. If you try to stop people from swapping to the LS brake, please make sure you try it first to gain the experience, then you can talk. I'm sorry to offend several members here, but this topic "brake bias" on the LS swap has kept going on on many threads and forums.
The brake bias might be present if you swap in like a huge brake system in the front and leave the rear stock. If you try to stop people from swapping to the LS brake, please make sure you try it first to gain the experience, then you can talk. I'm sorry to offend several members here, but this topic "brake bias" on the LS swap has kept going on on many threads and forums.
04-03-08, 06:26 PM
#41
The word "Brake Bias" seems to confuse and scare the people on this particular LS or Supra TT brake swap. I've been there and done that and honestly, I don't see the crap brake bias comes into play. The LS brake stops a lot better in all street & weather conditions. It stops better and smooth, too. But make sure when you swap in the new LS for the front, change the new pads for the stock rear as well to balance out.
The brake bias might be present if you swap in like a huge brake system in the front and leave the rear stock. If you try to stop people from swapping to the LS brake, please make sure you try it first to gain the experience, then you can talk. I'm sorry to offend several members here, but this topic "brake bias" on the LS swap has kept going on on many threads and forums.
The brake bias might be present if you swap in like a huge brake system in the front and leave the rear stock. If you try to stop people from swapping to the LS brake, please make sure you try it first to gain the experience, then you can talk. I'm sorry to offend several members here, but this topic "brake bias" on the LS swap has kept going on on many threads and forums.
its that simple. i have ls400 brakes. i still have to put them on though. from driving a car with a set it is obviously better then stock but you can easily lock up the fronts with the backs not doing anything.
its the same situation for the 240sx crowd. when people swap 300zx fronts it brakes really well but you can lock up the fronts at like 75mph and the backs wont. if you install 300zx brakes front and rear its will be much better but it still wont be perfect. the only solution is to take the 300zx master cylinder, fronts, and rears.
brake bias is very important....just not for an average lexus owner since most dont beat on their cars at the track
04-03-08, 07:46 PM
#42
I'd like to ad some info about brake rotors.
This is straight from a conversation I had with a brake rotor engineer at a foundry in California a while back when I was doing a huge brake rotor group purchase.
Just because brake rotors are slotted AND cross drilled doesn't make them better.
People don't understand that by slotting AND cross drilling the rotors, they are effectively LOSING 20% of the rotor to brake pad friction surface area.
food for thought...
Ryan
This is straight from a conversation I had with a brake rotor engineer at a foundry in California a while back when I was doing a huge brake rotor group purchase.
Just because brake rotors are slotted AND cross drilled doesn't make them better.
People don't understand that by slotting AND cross drilling the rotors, they are effectively LOSING 20% of the rotor to brake pad friction surface area.
food for thought...
Ryan
04-03-08, 08:37 PM
#44
04-03-08, 10:28 PM
#45
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That could be true most people don't track their cars. But most of the threads that I read (too many) often tend to make people think they'll have this problem for daily driving. I don't track but I ususually rev my car hard. Even when the turbo kicks in at its peak set up, I can still stop the car smoothly with no problem. This couldn't be done easily when I had my stock SC brake.