syn1313

I hate my dealership !

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

When will people stop believing this BULLSHYTE"? Pads can NEVER change stopping distance if you can engage ABS. NEVER. EVER. NO WAY. Tires are the ONLY thing that can change stopping distance. Brake components will never change stopping distance for street drivers.

I have the alternate pads on my 350. I still break my neck every time I drive my Supra for awhile and get in my IS because the brakes are so much more sensitive to input. FWIW, MotorTrend said the Supra has "the best brakes of any car we have tested in 30 years of tests" way back in 1998. While I do not agree that the new school sensitive brakes are "better" than old school brakes, the IS does not seem to have lost anything with the new lower dust pads.

Ramon

Actually, the new pads CAN increase stopping distances the way I see it. Weather they do or not I'm not sure. If the new pads are a lower friction part than the original pads, then it seems quite reasonable to me that even though the brake system can still easily overpower the tires with either pad, that it would take a bit more force with the new pads for it to do that. More force = longer brake pedal travel does it not? And is the car not still in motion when that travel takes place?

Then you have ABS braking system which pulsates several times a second, grabbing and releasing. The system would have to apply more force with the new pads before lockup than with the old pads. More force equals more time, and again, the car is traveling during that time. Do that several times a second and I can easily see how the new pads can slighlty increase stopping distances.

al503

I haven't read all 20 pages but this makes sense to me. Besides (but related to) this mu element, you also have pads that have different optimal operating temperatures. In the extremes, you have street pads v. full race pads. One performs best at ambient temperatures and the other at very high temps.

I'm not saying the pads in the TSIB are that different (from stock), if at all. I merely disagree with the blanket statement that different pads will not make a difference in stopping distances.

kindred6ul

Just got mine done over the weekend. I love it. I put 114 miles on it since I've left the service lot and did Manhattan driving for 40 miles on stop and go Cab racing w/ absolutely no sign of dust and VERY LITTLE stopping power loss. For the most part i love the feel more than the original. You enjoy braking without fear of losing the luster in your wheels. For anyone interested in doing this in the NY/NJ metro area Tri-County Lexus on rt 46 took me in and had the parts available with no wait. Very good customer service and no BS warranty replacements.

IS350jet

Yes! I agree 100%. Any brake pad capable of engaging the ABS system should have absolutely zero loss in performance. Pushing your car to the point of brake fade will change the results, however, as the pads will no longer be able to engage ABS. This is why Lexus says that there "may" be a slight loss in performance. This situation would never happen to 99.99999999 percent of us. Under normal circumstances, in a panic stop situation, the IS would stop just as before.

Ramon

and you'd be wrong just like lobux is... I can engage ABS on a vehicle with worn out pads and warped rotors does that mean that same car with the same tires running new pads and rotors will stop in the same distance? Not likely. Lobux is omitting a very important factor in his "analysis" which is time. You can be pretty much gauranteed that the new pads take more time to build up enough friction to engage ABS than the original pads.

IS350jet

If it's the same car with the same warped rotors and same tires, yes, the stopping distance would be the same with both pads.

Ramon

The same car with warped rotors and worn pads will NOT have the same stopping distances as one with new rotors and pads even though they can both engage ABS. The notion that brake components, so long as they can engage ABS will have absolutly zero effect on stoping distances is nothing short of wrong. I've already explained why. If you think otherwise you need to take an intro to physics class.

oliveryo

Wondering if someone can help me. Is the TSB worldwide? because i went to the lexus dealership in Taiwan and they denied me the free change.
I even showed them the TSIB (English Version) and they said NO.
I couldn't find the Chinese version, so am wondering if this TSB is worldwide or only for the US

Thanks

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

You have a fundamantal misconception about how ABS works. It doesn't care about mu, only rotational speed. If mu were desperately important, they'd have to know if the rotor was wet. It really is just a simple as - can you engage ABS - if yes, then you will get minimum stopping distance with the tires you are driving on the road you are driving. If not, all bets are off. Add to this the VDIM's accelerometer, and you have a very potent stopping system that really won't care about the pads, the discs, or the calipers. Only the tire's grip on the road will make a difference in how the car stops.

Force applied to the brake is a feel consideration, not a stopping consideration. My Supra doesn't have anywhere near the sensitivity the IS has, but it will outstop the IS hands down every time even with less sensitivity and smaller rotors. Why? Wider front tires and 200lbs less weight.

Just for all you guys who like braided stainless brake lines, I put them on my Supra. I can feel no difference in the brakes between the OEM lines and the braided stainless lines because I bleed my brakes with a vacuum pump. FWIW. I didn't change anything but the lines, so it was the most fair comparison possible. Bleeding is what makes the biggest difference in brake feel.

The test is simple. Stop guessing about what you feel. Engage ABS. Measure the distance. See it is unchanged for a single stop with different pads. Game over.

Ramon

I'm reading what you're saying, and I still don't see how brake components won't change stopping distances. I'm not talking about "feel" i'm talking about actual stopping distances. I'm also looking at this from a simple physics standpoint, and the system, regardless of how it works does not have the luxury of "not caring" about the laws of physics. Friction is what facilitates stopping power. A lower friction pad needs more force applied to get the same amount of friction as a higher friction pad. More force = more time, that is the world we live in and the ABS system did not break the laws of physics, I can gaurantee you that.

Your supra comparison doesn't mean anything. I am not saying the pads are as big of a factor as tires, I know they're not. What I am saying is that the statement that brake components make absolutly NO difference so long as you can engage ABS is simply incorrect.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

OK, you don't have to believe me. How about Grassroots Motorsport's James Walker?

I didn't invent this stuff. I've just tested it. The engineers are right. I'm really serious - try changing pads and measuring a stopping difference. You won't. The brakes may feel dramatically different, but the stopping distance will not change at all. I know because I've tried it when I used to race motorcycles. The biggest difference with bikes and cars is once the back tire is off the ground, there's nothing you can do to stop faster.

Ramon

ok, I skimmed through it and it was basically saying the exact same thing I was saying from what I can tell. They simply got more technical and said pads and rotors don't stop the car, friction does. They even said almsot exaclty what I was saying and that a lower friction pad would require more force to convert knetic energy to heat. What I didn't see in that article was the time aspect, maybe I missed it since I just skimmed it, but I didn't see it. If the brake system has to generate more force to achieve the same stopping power, it would seem to me that it would also take more time to generate that force. You don't get something for nothing, if it has to generate more force, there has to be a tradeoff somewhere. You're saying there is none, I'm saying there has to be, however minuscule it may be.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Ah, now I see where you are going astray. It doesn't generate any more or any less force. It generates exactly the same force. Quit skimming. You are missing the whole point.