Rotora BBK - 4 or 6 piston?
03-20-05, 01:32 AM
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Rotora BBK - 4 or 6 piston?
Ok guys, I have a couple of questions that I'm hoping you can help me with. I think I've decided to go with the Rotora BBK from the folks at Carson Toyota. What I can't decide is to go with 4 piston (and save a bit of $$) or go with the 6-piston system for the fronts -- and about 4 other questions.....
Before you answer, know this:
1) $$ isn't my primary concern so if 6-piston is better for some reason, then I'd rather go with better.
2) I dont race my car, or do anything other than the occasional fast driving now and again on the freeway. So this BBK is primarily for looks and better stopping power now that I have 20" Foose Sportstar (see pic) wheels.
3) Wheele sizes are 20x8.5-Front, 20x9.5-Rear
4) I know nothing about this offset thing that everyone is talking to, so I'm hoping that someone can tell me if I'm going to have any fitment problems with this wheel. I don't know if these wheels are a positive or negative offset.
So my questions are:
1) Will I have any problems with the 4 or 6 piston set on my fronts with the Foose Speedster 5spoke wheels (again included a pic below in case someone can eyeball it and tell me)?
2) Is it ok to go with 6piston in the front and 4piston in the back - or should you "keep it even all around"?
3) What does 6 piston give me over 4 piston (other than 2 more pistons)?
4) Lastly, I think I'm going to go with the BLUE calipers to go with my spectra blue LexGS400. Any warnings about that vs the RED calipers?
Thanks,
Ron
Before you answer, know this:
1) $$ isn't my primary concern so if 6-piston is better for some reason, then I'd rather go with better.
2) I dont race my car, or do anything other than the occasional fast driving now and again on the freeway. So this BBK is primarily for looks and better stopping power now that I have 20" Foose Sportstar (see pic) wheels.
3) Wheele sizes are 20x8.5-Front, 20x9.5-Rear
4) I know nothing about this offset thing that everyone is talking to, so I'm hoping that someone can tell me if I'm going to have any fitment problems with this wheel. I don't know if these wheels are a positive or negative offset.
So my questions are:
1) Will I have any problems with the 4 or 6 piston set on my fronts with the Foose Speedster 5spoke wheels (again included a pic below in case someone can eyeball it and tell me)?
2) Is it ok to go with 6piston in the front and 4piston in the back - or should you "keep it even all around"?
3) What does 6 piston give me over 4 piston (other than 2 more pistons)?
4) Lastly, I think I'm going to go with the BLUE calipers to go with my spectra blue LexGS400. Any warnings about that vs the RED calipers?
Thanks,
Ron
03-20-05, 02:05 AM
#2
If $$ is not a concern, I'd get some AP Racing or Endless brakes. 
Offset has some but very little to do with BBK clearance. The spoke shape and disk fitment (you want high disk) will have bigger impact. It is had to tell from the pic how much space is between the OEM calipers and the back of the rim. It looks somewhat tight but clarifications here would be helpful.
If you are going to get Rotora, either get the 4-pistons or the 6/4 setup. I would not recommend the 6 alone. Although you can certainly buy it that way, Rotora seems to position the 6/4 as a kit. Clearance will also be a big factor in which to get. The 4-piston calipers are smaller and thinner so that it will fit a number of rims. The 6-piston caliper is pretty big so there may be fitment issues here.
There are a number of things that affect braking performance. The ones related to the caliper would be size (to provide a larger surface area), number of pistons, and piston size. In a small sense, more pistons is better but it needs the other criteria to be be complementary in order to maximize the brake potential. The key to performance, though, is balance. Too much power in the front or rear can have detrimental effects. In this sense, bigger is not better.
What kind of warnings are you looking for in terms of color? They are functionally the same. Choose the color to your modding taste.
Anyway, your first task should be to figure out if a BBK will fit. If not, this whole discussion is moot. Both AP Racing and StopTech have good accurate caliper clearance templates. If you can clear these with your rims, then the Rotora 4-piston is a definite fit. The 6-piston should fit too but I cannot say 100%.
Good luck.
Offset has some but very little to do with BBK clearance. The spoke shape and disk fitment (you want high disk) will have bigger impact. It is had to tell from the pic how much space is between the OEM calipers and the back of the rim. It looks somewhat tight but clarifications here would be helpful.
If you are going to get Rotora, either get the 4-pistons or the 6/4 setup. I would not recommend the 6 alone. Although you can certainly buy it that way, Rotora seems to position the 6/4 as a kit. Clearance will also be a big factor in which to get. The 4-piston calipers are smaller and thinner so that it will fit a number of rims. The 6-piston caliper is pretty big so there may be fitment issues here.
There are a number of things that affect braking performance. The ones related to the caliper would be size (to provide a larger surface area), number of pistons, and piston size. In a small sense, more pistons is better but it needs the other criteria to be be complementary in order to maximize the brake potential. The key to performance, though, is balance. Too much power in the front or rear can have detrimental effects. In this sense, bigger is not better.
What kind of warnings are you looking for in terms of color? They are functionally the same. Choose the color to your modding taste.
Anyway, your first task should be to figure out if a BBK will fit. If not, this whole discussion is moot. Both AP Racing and StopTech have good accurate caliper clearance templates. If you can clear these with your rims, then the Rotora 4-piston is a definite fit. The 6-piston should fit too but I cannot say 100%.
Good luck.
03-20-05, 10:19 AM
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Neo thanks for the great answers. Exactly what I needed to get started. I'm pretty new at this brake thing and just don't really get the spacing thing. But I'll checkout the templates that you mentioned to find out more about the clearance space. I, too, was leaning toward the 4-piston front/back. I don't "need" six pistons, but simply wanted better braking than I have now. I've noticed much longer braking distances since I added the 20's so am really looking to just being safer (and it looking cool too!).
And yes, I LOVE those Endless brakes, but when I said money isn't an issue, I should have clarified and said that I don't care if I have to spend more for the six-piston over the four, if someone can tell me that they are really that much better than the 4. But I did notice that they do tend to push the 6/4 setup. Anyway, like you said, until I can know what will clear these wheels this whole discussion is moot. So I'll go and try and answer that question.
03-20-05, 10:59 AM
#4
well for the price of the 6/4 rotora, you can get the ap racing with a lot of change
anyway, i am with neo, either get the rotora 4 just front or 6/4 front/back. there is NO rotora 4/4 at this point i believe. and don't get just the front. i can care less what rotora says that even just the 6 in the front it's well blanced, i just dont' see how it can be the case.
anyway, it's really hard to tell if the brakes will fit, using the template for testing i think is the only way to be sure, plus it's not that hard actually, you should do that.
about the color. well, i have spectra blue gs4 too, but i didn't even get red calipers, i got black. i think it's the best match. somehow i don't think blue and red are perfect match for the car -- well ok, endless is different, haha...
if you don't race or such, 6 or 4 won't really be any difference, AT ALL. and even if you race i doubt you can tel the difference that easily. you always want more stopping power in the front than rear, so 6/4 would make sense, or if you just get 4 for the front to compliement the 2 (stock) in the back it's also good i think
anyway, i am with neo, either get the rotora 4 just front or 6/4 front/back. there is NO rotora 4/4 at this point i believe. and don't get just the front. i can care less what rotora says that even just the 6 in the front it's well blanced, i just dont' see how it can be the case.
anyway, it's really hard to tell if the brakes will fit, using the template for testing i think is the only way to be sure, plus it's not that hard actually, you should do that.
about the color. well, i have spectra blue gs4 too, but i didn't even get red calipers, i got black. i think it's the best match. somehow i don't think blue and red are perfect match for the car -- well ok, endless is different, haha...
if you don't race or such, 6 or 4 won't really be any difference, AT ALL. and even if you race i doubt you can tel the difference that easily. you always want more stopping power in the front than rear, so 6/4 would make sense, or if you just get 4 for the front to compliement the 2 (stock) in the back it's also good i think
03-20-05, 12:11 PM
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Romini, I looked at AP Racing, but admit their site isn't overly useful. When selecting the appropriate application they only list the IS300 as a Lexus model. 
Do you know which brake set I would consider? (new dimensions listed below)
But hey, once again fantastic advice from NEO and Romini. I totally appreciate the information. I'm learning a lot here.
And Neo, thanks much for the pointer to the template on the StopTech site. Seems easy enough. So I went out and measured it using the template.
-- I have a 2.5" (63.5mm) measurment from the stock rotor to the spoke of the wheel
-- I have just over 9" (190.8mm) from centerline to inner rim.
Plenty of room for the recommended StopTech 4-piston and the 6-piston Rotora.
Last question -- When it comes to brakes is it ok to purchase online and install locally, or is it best to buy and install from a reputable brake shop? What I'm trying to get at here is that brakes are a pretty important component of the car. Because of this, is it best that I buy and install with one local shop, or do most shops not mind you bringing in all your hardware and asking for their installation services. I mean, I can see a shop saying "yeah - we don't install that brand here", etc. Any pointers here?
Last bit, for the sake of everyone, I found what I thought was one of the best descriptions/discussions on how BBK's affect ABS, Traction Control, etc. Check it out:
ABS & Big Brake Kits
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...ake_122701.htm
It was so good, I'm actually leaning toward StopTech now because it seems that at least they've thought about the issue. For those of you that have gone the BBK route, have you had any issues with your cars internal braking systems such as ABS, etc.?
Do you know which brake set I would consider? (new dimensions listed below)But hey, once again fantastic advice from NEO and Romini. I totally appreciate the information. I'm learning a lot here.
And Neo, thanks much for the pointer to the template on the StopTech site. Seems easy enough. So I went out and measured it using the template.
-- I have a 2.5" (63.5mm) measurment from the stock rotor to the spoke of the wheel
-- I have just over 9" (190.8mm) from centerline to inner rim.
Plenty of room for the recommended StopTech 4-piston and the 6-piston Rotora.
Last question -- When it comes to brakes is it ok to purchase online and install locally, or is it best to buy and install from a reputable brake shop? What I'm trying to get at here is that brakes are a pretty important component of the car. Because of this, is it best that I buy and install with one local shop, or do most shops not mind you bringing in all your hardware and asking for their installation services. I mean, I can see a shop saying "yeah - we don't install that brand here", etc. Any pointers here?
Last bit, for the sake of everyone, I found what I thought was one of the best descriptions/discussions on how BBK's affect ABS, Traction Control, etc. Check it out:
ABS & Big Brake Kits
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...ake_122701.htm
It was so good, I'm actually leaning toward StopTech now because it seems that at least they've thought about the issue. For those of you that have gone the BBK route, have you had any issues with your cars internal braking systems such as ABS, etc.?
03-20-05, 12:20 PM
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I tell ya right now ROTORA is no longer doing a custom 4/4 setup anymore. I speak to them on a weekly basis and they want to promote their 6/4 setup. So if you go with Rotora, your choices are:
4 piston 13" setup (front only) or
6/4 14.2" setup (front & rear)
Before you buy, do a search here on the following brakes:
Endless
Stoptech
Brembo
Rotora
AP Racing
There's tons of info regarding all those brakes. Personally, if you have the $$$, do a Brembo 4 piston up front.
4 piston 13" setup (front only) or
6/4 14.2" setup (front & rear)
Before you buy, do a search here on the following brakes:
Endless
Stoptech
Brembo
Rotora
AP Racing
There's tons of info regarding all those brakes. Personally, if you have the $$$, do a Brembo 4 piston up front.
03-20-05, 02:06 PM
#7
Yup. Like the guys said, either 6/4 or 4 front only. With the 6/4 you will also get larger rotors which will fill out the 20s much nicer.
If it is a reputable shop, then they should be able to install a BBK. It is even better if they have installed your BBK on a GS before. I don't see any problem buying the kit somewhere else, online or otherwise, and installing it at your shop.
As for clearance, the diameter is usually straightforward. The width is usually the tricky one since different companies have different size calipers. If your wheel fits the StopTechs, then it will also work for the Rotora 4-pistons. The 6 piston is still suspect since that caliper is bigger (wider). Maybe LXOGOOD has or can get a template for you to test that. The one I had a year ago was just a preliminary one with no real guides at all. The template they have for the 4-piston (that I got from Steve Ganz) over a year ago did not scale well when printed out. This is why I suggested the StopTech template as a starting point.
Since you are considering StopTech, there is the option of getting the 4-piston front but with the 355mm rotor. This is the setup I have. As a company, I was impressed with their dedication and philosophy towards braking. This is one of the reasons why I went with them.
If it is a reputable shop, then they should be able to install a BBK. It is even better if they have installed your BBK on a GS before. I don't see any problem buying the kit somewhere else, online or otherwise, and installing it at your shop.
As for clearance, the diameter is usually straightforward. The width is usually the tricky one since different companies have different size calipers. If your wheel fits the StopTechs, then it will also work for the Rotora 4-pistons. The 6 piston is still suspect since that caliper is bigger (wider). Maybe LXOGOOD has or can get a template for you to test that. The one I had a year ago was just a preliminary one with no real guides at all. The template they have for the 4-piston (that I got from Steve Ganz) over a year ago did not scale well when printed out. This is why I suggested the StopTech template as a starting point.
Since you are considering StopTech, there is the option of getting the 4-piston front but with the 355mm rotor. This is the setup I have. As a company, I was impressed with their dedication and philosophy towards braking. This is one of the reasons why I went with them.
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03-20-05, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Neo
Since you are considering StopTech, there is the option of getting the 4-piston front but with the 355mm rotor. This is the setup I have. As a company, I was impressed with their dedication and philosophy towards braking. This is one of the reasons why I went with them.
03-21-05, 08:24 PM
#10
forgot to mention don't go with the rotora blue on the blue gs. its way to blue-ish for our color. i vote you go silver or red. i'm going to paint my front and rear calipers red soon ..
..
03-21-05, 09:24 PM
#11
Originally Posted by bluelex
forgot to mention don't go with the rotora blue on the blue gs. its way to blue-ish for our color. i vote you go silver or red. i'm going to paint my front and rear calipers red soon ..
..
03-21-05, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bluelex
forgot to mention don't go with the rotora blue on the blue gs. its way to blue-ish for our color. i vote you go silver or red. i'm going to paint my front and rear calipers red soon ..
..
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