mikeloc24

I don't want people to miss the point here. I'm not saying they shouldn't post a question or have no right to post a question, I'm asking that they search FIRST, then if they can't find what they're looking for post a question. I just get tired of the laziness.

The second issue is new members posting up misinformation, then bashing older members when they chime in to correct the situation. Posting up misinformation is also a no-no as it may negatively impact someone else's car

I just want the laziness curbed and more respect shown to older members, period. I don't think it's asking a lot.

Project300

Thanks for this much needed discussion Mike.

I cant agree more with DaveGS4's post eariler in the thread. He really nailed it. Everybody on the forums should read what he has to say. He has the right approach.

This is a community and like any community it is only as good as we members make it. Mike, I know you are very willing to help other members when you can. I personally have gained useful info from your posts that helped me find answers I needed. Thank you. It is great that you actively read new posts to see where you can give back and answer questions you already have the answers to.

That being said, mike I think somewhere you have lost your patience with members who are just looking to get answers to questions. Forget about expecting them to have any respect for you or your seniority if you dont show them respect first, even if they are ignorant. Post count means nothing. The fact that you titled this thread "my CL experience" sounds really selfish and says alot IMO. Your experience is everones experience. Often you come across as rude and exasperated for no reason. What's up? Please try to show more tact and patience and the whole community will benefit from more than just your knowledge. Like Dave said, I think this is greatly contributing to the problems being discussed in this thread. There are others that contribute to this too, but more often I see your posts as the consistantly abrasive (yet informative) ones in the SC forums.

I know you are a valuable member of the CL community and I dont want this to sound to negative. Keep spreading the knowledge, just take a deep breath first. No hard feelings Mike. Peace.

PERRYinLA

I'm coming in late on this discussion but I have to commend Mike on most of his points. The SC300/400 has depreciated to the point where kids that can't even grow facial hair can afford the cars, and of course as soon as they find the SC forum they clog it up with some pretty insipid stuff.

Yeah, we can ignore them but the damage is already being done- when my power steering pump goes some day and I have to search to bone up on the topic, I'll now have twice as many threads to go through (but there won't be twice the information in them). Combine that with almost everyone's penchant for quoting the entire post they are responding to (even if it is the very previous post- the one that we all just read, Sherlock), and we end up with a "database" three times larger than it has to be. And don't get me started on those fools that include images when they quote.

At one time there was talk of creating a FAQ section for each model car, and then if any thread was started with a subject that the FAQ's already addressed, the thread was locked, with a link to the FAQ’s. That hasn't yet happened, maybe because some folks think it is too tough. If you ask me, it's not tough enough (I'd prefer to see the thread deleted rather than locked), but I'll take it as an improvement over the current situation.

deruvian

Perhaps I'm a little too brave to post in this thread composed of mainly senior members, but I think newbies themselves (well, the sensible ones) may have some input on this issue. I may have only 20 some-odd posts, but I am not new to online car communities and forums.

Anyhow, one of the first things that I noticed about CL has been mentioned a time or two in this very thread. When I go searching for very specific information, more often than not I can only find threads that end with either no definitive results of any kind or the commonly used "press the search button."

Granted, this is probably due to an overflow of repetitious questions, but complaining about this issue does not fix the root of the problem.

In most applications, the search feature is the way to go. It's recommendation to some of the more arrogant newbies is a necessity. However, overusing this recommendation has become a problem to new Lexus owners such as myself. Often times I have noticed half of the information I need is in one thread, and the other half is split between multiple threads that are months and months old.

I do not intend to down-talk this forum at all - so far I am very much enjoying my stay here - but I must say the organization of information relies too heavily on the search feature. I understand that comparisons are not the kindest ways to make points, but the organization of info on Supraforums is of ornate efficacy. Within each forum and sub-forum are multiple stickies addressing the most basic issues and inquiries. I only browse the SC300/400 area, so I can't speak about the entirety of CL, but there are certainly very few stickies of this kind.

Reorganization of info will do nothing for shear laziness of some newbies. But, for example, if the power steering pump on PERRYinLA's car simply dies, he won't have to sift through a multitude of worthless posts for advice on repairs.

I wish I could be more eloquent in the method of this post, but an issue with such diverse opinions does not deserve a "beat around the bush" mentality. So I apologize if I come off as slightly blunt.

Lexmex

I don't like it much either, since then we have to search through umpteen posts related to the same topic instead of a few concrete topics.

e.g., Someone posts about K&N air filters, and then when we find x number of topics related to exactly the same question.

Oil sludge was a topic that has been beaten to death.

The only thing I can say is that I often like to add new information whenever a newbie posts to avoid repeating old information and I add a comment to search before you post.

Brandicus

iTrader: (6)

I agree with deru that the search function is slightly overrated. not to say that it isnt useful, but some people might get thier answers faster by simply posting the question

mikeloc24

I completely understand what you're saying man, I have grown impatient with a few of the newer members but I attribute that to the disrespect I've seen lately. Not to me personally but to other members on this forum. It's unnecessary from someone who has just recently started visiting the site, and it's unnecessary from someone who's been here for a while unless they're joking and the other party knows this.

I titled the thread "MY CL experience" because I never make claims of speaking for others, only for myself...so please understand why the thread was titled that way, it was not meant to come off as this was my site. This "refusal to do research" is an issue I've discussed with many members via pm, but I will not include their names in this discussion because I took it upon myself to start this thread.

Perhaps it's because I've used the search function so much that I normally have no issues with finding what I'm looking for, even though I admit that looking through hundreds of threads just to find an answer to your question can be a headache, which is why I'm against people just starting threads on a whim. I just went to the SC300/400 section and there's about 5 new threads asking simple questions that have already been hammered hundreds of times. So as Perry said, when the time comes to search for an answer now there's MORE useless threads to go through.

At this point I'd like to know what you all suggest we do to curb the problem, even slightly. I don't want unnecessary restrictions on new memberships, and I know the "search you lazy noob!" responses don't help anyone, so what say you all? Any suggestions on how to help new members find the info they're looking for without insulting them and without them adding to the already growing list of useless threads here on CL? Gentlemen? What say you?

TLW

PERRYinLA

That's funny. Too bad CL doesn't allow animated avatars/sigs, or I'd adopt that one as my own!

I hope the makers of vBulletin are incorporating something similar in their next version- it's really due.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Good thing you aren't the admin, ILES3 . There's a lot of venom and anger in your post above as well ... Some of your comments I agree with in general, but let's please try to take this thread in a positive direction and come up with constructive comments please.

One item in my control... as soon as I can make time, I'll review the SC forum FAQs in detail. My initial review was that they were very well done (thanks team that did it) but that most of them contained links to 'only one' thread on the FAQ topic I'd like to expand them for some of the larger topics to include more links and also add small summary of keyword suggestions to search on for more info.

PERRYinLA

You forgot to mention how MODEST you are, too.

Neo

iTrader: (3)

And I would have to disagree with you. I read your post and I felt a lot of anger coming from those words. Your hardline stance against what Mike posted was as aggressive as the frustrated first post in this thread. Some of what you said makes sense but the response seems like a quick reaction to reading Mike's post.

The thing I do not understand is that Mike posted this in late August. If you (general you and not specific person ) read the rest of the thread (and the forum in general), Mike has backed down somewhat from his position. Although he is still somewhat frustrated, he has grown to deal with it better. He has even somewhat left this thread alone and has only come back in recently in response to new posts. Every once in awhile, I see someone's reaction bumping this thread. I thought this episode was over. No?

Neo

iTrader: (3)

In theory, I do agree with what you are saying. Real world execution is another matter.

Firstly, this thread was started by one person who reached the limit of his patience AT A CERTAIN MOMENT and he acted on it. Although others may share his view, none reacted similarly. Maybe their breaking point was not reached. Dave has talked to Mike about it so there was a "staff" response to Mike, which is what I think helped Mike to cool down a bit on the subject.

There is a need for newbie "training" if you want to call it that. It just comes down to the approach. I agree that "USE SEARCH" without any explanation is not the right approach. As for training the vets, again, Mike's frustrated response should not be representative of other members' behavior. Veterans are called veterans for a reason. Most are very helpful and have been active contributors. Who do you want to give the benefit of the doubt to? Active contributors who you've had direct dialogs with or someone who recently registered that you've had no dealings with?

On the other hand, I am not lumping the few newbies with attitudes into the same pot as all newbies. Most members here on CL (new and old) are very pleasant to deal with.

As for site admin, there are many new things being worked on, including revamping and clarifying of the rules. The site is a business but it is not profitable. We all enjoy this because of the generosity of one man. The vendors fees help but it does not cover the cost of maintaining a site this size. The admins and mods do NOT get paid. It is strictly voluntary. Implementation of changes are sometimes at the mercy of all volunteers' life commitments. We all find time here and there to help keep the site flowing. Sometimes it is enough. Sometimes not. For better or worse, it is what it is.

That said, I think CL is still a pretty tight ship compared to many other forums. Believe me, members are not running the show. There are members coming and going all the time. The ones that are out of line are no longer welcomed here. The mods spend a good amount of time discussing many issues that come up. The moderating work is not always visible in the general forums. There is always room for improvements and the only thing we (mods and members) can do is to moderate ourselves and help eachother to make CL the second home we want it to be.

Neo

iTrader: (3)

LOL. I am glad I have your vote. I also have the admin's vote too. I realize it is hard to tell who is a mod or not with all these custom labels. (Just to be clear: I am a Super Mod. I try not to flex that too much as I enjoy conversing with other members without the title. I am NOT afraid to use it if needed though. )

I understand your intent and the more we "talk", your tone has mellowed more and more (just like Mike's since his first post in this thread. ) I know the tone of the first post has gotten strong responses from a number of members but the whole issue has somewhat blown over.

As for the site, what I posted above is my understanding of the current state of ClubLexus. I do not have all the details in terms of expenses/income but I have been told that the cost is definitely subsidized on top of the vendor fees.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

ilovemyes3,

Your posts since this one have been more constructive, but I will still issue you a warning for this type of behaviour. Please read our forum rules on "Response to Comments" and let moderators moderate when there are issues. You are contributing to the same attitude problem you are discussing here with posts like that, knock it off.

https://www.clublexus.com/index.php/...ew/2160/1/126/