Heath

Hello all.... Hopefully I'm putting this in the correct forum. I'm currently car shopping for my wife... Looking for a used car for $8-10K... Might be able to swing 12K but I won't know that for another month or so... Currently I've got a friend with an older LS400 and he loves it and talks up Lexus like its the best car made (I'm sure most of you will agree, LOL). Well my dilema is this. While I'd like an LS400 for my wife I just don't think I can afford one, I'm looking more at the ES300, I'm a bit scared of them though because of all the problems Toyota has been having with its sister platform, the Camry. The sludging problem to be exact. I'm very handy with tools and so are my friends, we're not afraid to get dirty fixing our cars and/or maintaining them. We enjoy it actually. I'm hoping to purchase a vehicle around Christmas.

I guess what I'm asking is that I'd like some opinions, examples, reason to buy, reasons not to buy, reasons for the ES over the LS, things like that.... BTW I'm not affraid of a 100K mile Lexus, They've proven very reliable, and as long as I can find one in good shape that should be just fine to run for another 200K miles...

Also, the competition right now is the Infinity I30 and Q45... Those Q's don't seem to be as highly regarded as the LS, but the few that I've driven in the past I liked a lot....

If it matters in my consideration, my wife probably won't let me mod the car much if any but I'll try and do what I can... But if she finds out there will be some goin on..

TIA for your help...

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

From what I've heard, the sludging problem is way overblown and usually only a problem with those people who don't change their oil as often as they should.

As far as buying an ES vs. buying an LS - well the LS is a MUCH better car. I'd rather have a '92 LS than a '97 ES.

The ES is fine, but it's like driving an appliance - pretty dull. An LS on the other hand, even a high mile older one is sublimely quiet, smooth riding, and really roomy, with great audio and creature comforts.

Heath

Great, this is the kind of info that I need... We will also be test driving them as well, but you just can't get all the info on a test drive, the net seems to be the best place for that...

You're driving EXACTLY what I want, the GS400... I wish that event the GS300's were in the price range... I absolutly love the GS series, I think they're beautiful cars...

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

One more thing on sludging - the RX300 supposedly suffers from it too, but my wife has an RX300 (your wife would love one of those too I assure you, although probably not for $8-12K unless it had huge mileage), and hers has 100K mi. on it, and ZERO problems (one bit of trim on the rear door has come loose - no big deal). My wife treats her RX300 like crap, but we do get the oil changed every 5K mi. and 'big' services every 30K.

Heath

My wife actually dosen't want an SUV... I have to say that I'm also not a fan of the RX myself...

UncleNick

I worked for a Toyota dealer for 3 years and as far as the "gelling issue" it was mostly for those whom chose not to change oil. There were the few instances but my Dad has a 97 Camry (same as ES300) with 100,000 miles on the clock. Never had a problem. My Mom has a 99 Avalon(ES300), not a problem, we change oils every 3000 without fail. These are awsome cars. The LS is an awsome car too, but repairs for that car can get costly if one cannot afford such. All I had was American muscle but one cannot beat Totota reliablity, hence my IS300, finally listened to my Dad...31 years later...LOL

GlobeCLK

iTrader: (5)

I've heard that you should NEVER buy a used Q no matter what year (I think that ranges from last generation to last last generation Q45s)

mooretorque

Heath, one last point about the sludging issue without going into a summary of the screaming/flaming/rending of garments/gnashing of teeth that occured over the issue before T/L responded. Toyota/Lexus has put into place an 8 year (from the date of original purchase, regardless of current owner), unlimited mileage engine warranty for gellling/sludge. All that is asked is that the owner show that they've changed the oil AT LEAST ONCE A YEAR!! There were a few instances of owners who DID regularly change oil (and had proof) developing gelled motors (cue gnashing of teeth here) but the vast majority were a result of virtually zero maintainence.

As long as you find a car with a good service history, you should be fine even with the ES. The V8 is a tank, with many going 200-300k w/o having to open top or bottom end. But as UncleNick pointed out, other maintainence items can be costly (though this is true of any Lex).

Good luck!!

Heath

What "other" maintainence issues would you guys be reffering to???

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Heath, if you're only paying $8-12K for a Lexus, it's likely to have some work to do over time. A local Lexus owner bought an LS400 with 185K miles on it and I think he had to get the A/C compressor and fuel pump replaced (probably more than $1K) but his car now has 215K+ and looks and runs GREAT.

If a Toyota/Lexus has 80K+ on it and the owner hasn't done it, you can expect a timing belt replacement soon, and that's expensive.

Heath

I should be able to do the timing belt on it... I do them on Honda's all the time... Also is the Toyota/Lexus an interference or non interference engine???

GA400

(cough, cough) I am guessing here, but Bit is probably referring to me as I used to come to the Club Lexus meets pretty often here in Hotlanta. Actually, my 91 LS400 is closing in on 224,000 miles now and I swear the car runs better every day. As he mentioned, I had to get the a/c compressor rebuilt, didn't get the fuel pump replaced, but I have had the power steering pump rebuilt and the timing belt and water pump replaced. The only actual failure was the water pump, the rest I had replaced on the advice of my mechanic as a preventive measure. I also replaced the shocks, radio, and wheels, because I spend at least two hours a day in my car and wanted to make it very comfortable. From what I can tell, NO maintenance was done on the car from 120,000 to 180,000 miles other than oil changes. My investment so far has been about $3,000 (less than $1,000 was mandatory) But I only paid $5,900 for the car. Higher mileage LS400's can be had for next to nothing, because most people are scared of dealer service prices. My advice -- get a '93 or newer, they have the new R134a a/c and larger brakes. Also get traction control if EVER snows where you live. pm me for more info if you like.

pic of my car at 223,500 with new wheels (from a GS400 platinum)



Cheers!

Rich

Heath

Okay, so do any of you folks actually do any of your own wrenching, you know, that way when my wife breaks it you guys can help me diagnose it...

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Hell no, it's a Lexus, not a Mustang.

GA400

A lot of the gearheads on here spend time on a forum called www.lextreme.com started by some people who post on this forum too. Lots of good info on Toyota V8's, including timing belt replacements, better air intakes, headers, etc. Definitely a more mechanical forum than this one.