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Just took my 1998 LS to a shop to diagnose an oil leak that's been happening for at least 6 months now. Shop came back saying they found two leaks. First was an oil sensor leak + oil dip stick o ring leak, second was my cam seals.
The mechanic is a well respected independent Lexus specialist in Southern California. My car is 20K short of it 3rd timing belt replacement (250K). He suggested doing a cam seal replacement, timing belt, and water pump, tensioners and other associated parts generally recommended to do during a TB replacement. The quote was $1750 for the cam seal replacement + just the timing belt. He said $600 more to replace the water pump tensioners and others.
Is this a reasonable quote? He warrantees his work for 2 years. Uses all OEM parts. etc.
Just took my 1998 LS to a shop to diagnose an oil leak that's been happening for at least 6 months now. Shop came back saying they found two leaks. First was an oil sensor leak + oil dip stick o ring leak, second was my cam seals.
The mechanic is a well respected independent Lexus specialist in Southern California. My car is 20K short of it 3rd timing belt replacement (250K). He suggested doing a cam seal replacement, timing belt, and water pump, tensioners and other associated parts generally recommended to do during a TB replacement. The quote was $1750 for the cam seal replacement + just the timing belt. He said $600 more to replace the water pump tensioners and others.
Is this a reasonable quote? He warrantees his work for 2 years. Uses all OEM parts. etc.
Wow I paid 900 for all that. Included some vacuum line and radiator hose replacements.
$600 MORE to replace some tensioners? They'll already be removed to do the whole Tbelt/water pump, wouldn't even cost $200 more in parts. An entire Aisin kit with all the tensioners, idlers, and such for the tbelt is less than $200 itself. He may do good work but that quote is at least $1000 too much. The cam seals are admittedly a PITA, they require removal of the valve covers and complete removal of the intake camshafts. Not a fun job, and requires finesse and some special tools. Probably adds $500 to labor but that's ridiculous.
The oil sensor and dipstick O ring are cheap AND easy. The cam seals are NOT! I would want definitive proof the cam seals are leaking before letting anyone disturb them. As there's no rush to do the timing belt, not yet at least, if the cam seals aren't leaking all you're looking at is an O ring and a sensor gasket. If you're not already using high mileage oil I would switch to it and see what happens. Be patient and don't be in a hurry to change the timing belt until you are positive the cam seals are leaking. Even respected mechanics will upsell unnecessary work.
All things considered, if he does use OE Lexus/Toyota parts, $1750 for EVERYTHING mentioned would be reasonable.
Just took my 1998 LS to a shop to diagnose an oil leak that's been happening for at least 6 months now. Shop came back saying they found two leaks. First was an oil sensor leak + oil dip stick o ring leak, second was my cam seals.
The mechanic is a well respected independent Lexus specialist in Southern California. My car is 20K short of it 3rd timing belt replacement (250K). He suggested doing a cam seal replacement, timing belt, and water pump, tensioners and other associated parts generally recommended to do during a TB replacement. The quote was $1750 for the cam seal replacement + just the timing belt. He said $600 more to replace the water pump tensioners and others.
Is this a reasonable quote? He warrantees his work for 2 years. Uses all OEM parts. etc.
Cam seals are not that easy but not impossible, and they are not really related to timing belt (meaning - doing a timing belt at the same time does not save you money or time). But the reason people change water pump and tensioners at the same time as timing belt is because it is only a minimal amount of extra work. Once you remove the old timing belt, all the tensioners and the water pump are right there, few easy screws away from being taken off. That is hardly worth $75, much less $750 extra. You take off the old water pump, put some FIPGS and the new water pump and screw it in with proper torque and done.
Also, typical labor charge for timing belt is around 500-750, depending who you ask (in CA it's always ridiculously expensive. Here every mechanic charges by how many hours it says by the book which ALWAYS overestimates everything, then times $110/hr and then they include overpriced parts and give you a quote, and if you dare bring your own parts, then they inflate the quote even more!).
You need to find an HONEST and good mechanic who will charge you by how many hours it really takes to do the job. Most good mechanics are not necessarily honest, because most others are both dishonest and bad, so they figure, even if they overcharge you, they are still better than most others.
Parts for timing belt and all associated work (tensioners water pump etc), are around $200 and thats for OEM.
You can also look up on the net "average price to change cam seals on ls400" and you will get a range of estimates, so that's your guide. Add that on top of the timing belt for an guesstimate.
p.s. Something I've noticed since I bought LS: every mechanic asks me "what is the car?" first and foremost, and then the quote is incredibly high. I mean, I call to ask how much to put on new tires, on a passenger car. "What car is it?" It's a four door, regular passneger car. "No WHICH car is it? Is it a ford, honda, dodge.. I say - it's a lexus. "OK, 185 dollars to install four tires." $45 per tire???" And they wanted more on top of them for old tire disposal etc, so I kept calling until I found a decent inexpensive place that did it all for $108. Saved more than $100 on stupid tire job that requires barely any skill.
Just took my 1998 LS to a shop to diagnose an oil leak that's been happening for at least 6 months now. Shop came back saying they found two leaks. First was an oil sensor leak + oil dip stick o ring leak, second was my cam seals.
The mechanic is a well respected independent Lexus specialist in Southern California. My car is 20K short of it 3rd timing belt replacement (250K). He suggested doing a cam seal replacement, timing belt, and water pump, tensioners and other associated parts generally recommended to do during a TB replacement. The quote was $1750 for the cam seal replacement + just the timing belt. He said $600 more to replace the water pump tensioners and others.
Is this a reasonable quote? He warrantees his work for 2 years. Uses all OEM parts. etc.
Have replaced cam seals and not a fun job and a lot of things can go wrong if not sure what you are doing and lack correct tools.
Are OEM parts quoted?
Have shop put in writing brand of parts and used parts shall be returned.
While valve covers are off, replace spark plug tube seals and bolt seals (18)
Also, while (intake) cam is removed to replace cam seals, valve lash should be measured and adjusted.
Cam shims are used to do this...
If your guy is Lexus certified, then he should be able to do.
If Indy is willing to throw in labor for tube seals and valve lash adjustment with quoted price, then go for it...parts are extra.
Cam seals are not that easy but not impossible, and they are not really related to timing belt (meaning - doing a timing belt at the same time does not save you money or time). But the reason people change water pump and tensioners at the same time as timing belt is because it is only a minimal amount of extra work. Once you remove the old timing belt, all the tensioners and the water pump are right there, few easy screws away from being taken off. That is hardly worth $75, much less $750 extra. You take off the old water pump, put some FIPGS and the new water pump and screw it in with proper torque and done.
Also, typical labor charge for timing belt is around 500-750, depending who you ask (in CA it's always ridiculously expensive. Here every mechanic charges by how many hours it says by the book which .
Cam seals are def related to the TB. Replacing the cam seal requires removing the intake cam which requires removing the timing belt. Removing the timing belt, properly, requires removing all the timing covers on the front of the engine. If the cam seals are leaking and you're only 20k away from a TB service then yes it makes perfect sense to do it all together...
To me that price is a bit high. Mine was done with the red box Toyota parts and the base timing belt service including water pump, cam seals, tensioners, idlers, thermostat was $1,211.With all that being done the valve cover gaskets were also replaced along with the radiator. By 200K many of the original parts like that are not going to last much longer. If you like this shop and they've been good that is up to your wallet comfort level.
Did he actually pull the timing belt sprocket covers to identify the leak? That’s a real hard leak to identify otherwise. He might be banking on the fact you’re almost due for a timing belt anyway, and you’ll be doing valve cover gaskets, etc.
I’d say $1750 is reasonable IF it includes the water pump and tensioner pulleys. An extra $600 to unbolt the water pump is out of range. Do the crank seal too while you’re in there. Not much more effort to put a new one in at that point.
Also, if your cam seals are leaking and you’re at that kind of mileage, you may need speedy sleeves, not just new cam seals. The inner diameter of the cam seals are enormous on the VVTI engines and therefore carry a lot of rotational speed. Mine had some very deep grooves with 160k miles. You may be fine with just new rubber, but it’s hard for a lip seal to make a good seal if the groove is deep enough.
One more thing might be to confirm the VVTI pulleys are not leaking as well... the car is 21 years old now and that O-ring might be bad too. It is not supposed to be a serviceable part and each VVTI pulley is around $250 - $300 I believe. I took mine apart and replaced the O-ring with one I sourced myself, but most would not want to tackle that. The pulleys need to be reassembled in exactly the same orientation for proper timing.
Did he actually pull the timing belt sprocket covers to identify the leak? That’s a real hard leak to identify otherwise. He might be banking on the fact you’re almost due for a timing belt anyway, and you’ll be doing valve cover gaskets, etc.
I’d say $1750 is reasonable IF it includes the water pump and tensioner pulleys. An extra $600 to unbolt the water pump is out of range. Do the crank seal too while you’re in there. Not much more effort to put a new one in at that point.
Also, if your cam seals are leaking and you’re at that kind of mileage, you may need speedy sleeves, not just new cam seals. The inner diameter of the cam seals are enormous on the VVTI engines and therefore carry a lot of rotational speed. Mine had some very deep grooves with 160k miles. You may be fine with just new rubber, but it’s hard for a lip seal to make a good seal if the groove is deep enough.
One more thing might be to confirm the VVTI pulleys are not leaking as well... the car is 21 years old now and that O-ring might be bad too. It is not supposed to be a serviceable part and each VVTI pulley is around $250 - $300 I believe. I took mine apart and replaced the O-ring with one I sourced myself, but most would not want to tackle that. The pulleys need to be reassembled in exactly the same orientation for proper timing.
Do you have images on "speedy sleeves" that you used.
The VVTi units appear to employ a special."X" profile o-ring....
Cam seals are def related to the TB. Replacing the cam seal requires removing the intake cam which requires removing the timing belt. Removing the timing belt, properly, requires removing all the timing covers on the front of the engine. If the cam seals are leaking and you're only 20k away from a TB service then yes it makes perfect sense to do it all together...
My bad then. I thought the valve covers and cam seals are all accessed from the top of the engine - by removing the throttle body, etc. while water pump and TB are from the front.
wow such great responses. and some really great suggestions for additional items to keep an eye out for and ask the mechanic about. I am definitely inclined to replace any old/worn parts prone to failure while we are already so deep in the engine. Preventative maintenance!!!
Some additional information I didn't include in my original post:
the mechanic says he inspected the timing belt and it was slightly wet from oil. I think this is how he determined the cam seals were leaking
My valve cover gaskets were changed about 2 years ago. I told him this before he began inspecting the car
Yes he will use all OEM parts
It sounds like the consensus is that this price is on the high side. He certainly doesn't seem to compete on price, rather quality of work performed (hence the 2 year warranty on all work done). I will bring up the other things mentioned in this thread (crankshaft seals, speedy sleeves, vvti pulleys). and also get more information from him on the pricing and what it includes because an additional $600 for tensioners water pump and pulleys does seem high.
Wow what a thread - a real goldmine of information for anyone looking to DIY this fix. Unfortunately I am nowhere near experienced to tackle something like this on my own. I will definitely have to pay a shop to get it done. Since the work is quite intricate with a real potential for harm to the engine, it would seem to require a mechanic who really knows these engines to do the work right the first time. So perhaps worth it to pay a bit of a premium to a good shop for peace of mind? I would love to tackle something like this as I enjoy learning and working on my car but knowing me this would take me two weeks lol as I am VERY slow. Also the stress of potentially ruining my engine if done incorrectly would be tough to handle.
I would definitely be a big job for a novice. Have you called around to other shops to get additional quotes? Also, it's not always about the cheapest price. I'd rather pay a little more and get a better product or service.
06-19-19, 08:09 PM
Cam seal oil leak 1998, high quote to fix?
