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I have purchased a 2007 IS250 not too long ago with 180k km (112k) miles on it. I recently noticed what through research is the cam gear rattle these vehicles had an issue with. Cold start (and even when parked for about 30min) noise about 50% of the time I start it or even more.
My question here is one of wanting to see if there are any people that have had this affliction with their vehicles and just let it be. Will it cause any damage (or possibility of damage) or is it fine? I cannot seem to find where someone had said they confirmed living it with for an extended period of time (maybe lets say driving 60k miles with the rattle present) Or finding info that this issue caused some sort of failure rendering the vehicle useless or expensive to fix.
I like this vehicle but I am unsure if I should sell it as I am currently not in a position that I can get a new vehicle if this issue is detrimental in some way during extended use.
The IS 350 has the same rattle and Lexus issued a recall because it could damage the vehicle. Apparently, Lexus doesn't think it would needs to be done on the 250.
I have purchased a 2007 IS250 not too long ago with 180k km (112k) miles on it. I recently noticed what through research is the cam gear rattle these vehicles had an issue with. Cold start (and even when parked for about 30min) noise about 50% of the time I start it or even more.
My question here is one of wanting to see if there are any people that have had this affliction with their vehicles and just let it be. Will it cause any damage (or possibility of damage) or is it fine? I cannot seem to find where someone had said they confirmed living it with for an extended period of time (maybe lets say driving 60k miles with the rattle present) Or finding info that this issue caused some sort of failure rendering the vehicle useless or expensive to fix.
I like this vehicle but I am unsure if I should sell it as I am currently not in a position that I can get a new vehicle if this issue is detrimental in some way during extended use.
Thank you in advance
Hmm I always thought that issue was recalled. My Lexus had it fixed at the dealership and since I've owned it never had that issue
So now I have a question...what was changed in the old cam gear assembly for the RRO?
It'd be awful useful info for those of us that don't believe dealerships are the magic gateway to every solution...or any solution, for that matter. I'm still on pre-recall airbags, and I'll likely end up out of pocket for the new ones for the simple fact that ground vehicle mechanics don't get to touch anything of mine under any context.
I believe the change is so minor that it equates to a material finish and tolerance fit such that oil is less likely to bleed off over time. The chain driven cam gears are fluid coupled to the cams themselves. When off, no oil pressure applied the cam returns to full retard and rests on hardened pins. The failure mode is when the positioning oil leaks from the chambers inside the gear and rotation of the outer gear has enough energy to snap the hardened pin as the oil chambers didn't oil soon enough to cushion the impact. From here things go down hill. Especially if these are interference engines which I have not seen documented either way.
Although this campaign is for the 350, you may glean some useful info from this. BTW it talks about the actual bolts inside the VVTi shearing and eludes to total loss cam control. This particular document includes repair process and doing cam timing which you may find useful in the future....
OP you might pull the filter screens from the Banjo Bolts feeding the heads and confirm they are not obstructed. That could cause some of the noise. Suggest new crush washers if this is done.
Got our 250 somewhere around the 60k mile mark, had the rattle then. Just about 130k now, still have it.
in the same boat now in my 07 250, sad to admit. been experiencing the rattle for about 25k miles with no adverse drivability.
took it to the dealer when the sound surfaced awhile back and all they said was it will cost a lot of money to fix, or you can just leave it...so I just lived with it since!
Got our 250 somewhere around the 60k mile mark, had the rattle then. Just about 130k now, still have it.
Originally Posted by timmy0tool
in the same boat now in my 07 250, sad to admit. been experiencing the rattle for about 25k miles with no adverse drivability.
took it to the dealer when the sound surfaced awhile back and all they said was it will cost a lot of money to fix, or you can just leave it...so I just lived with it since!
Thank for the info, eases my mind a bit. It just sounds like it should be doing some sort of damage, makes me wince every time.
Originally Posted by 2013FSport
Although this campaign is for the 350, you may glean some useful info from this. BTW it talks about the actual bolts inside the VVTi shearing and eludes to total loss cam control. This particular document includes repair process and doing cam timing which you may find useful in the future....
I could not open the pdf here. Not sure if an issue with link. So there is a possibility of some sort of failure? What is the difference between the 350 that warranted recall while the 250 did not?
Originally Posted by 2013FSport
OP you might pull the filter screens from the Banjo Bolts feeding the heads and confirm they are not obstructed. That could cause some of the noise. Suggest new crush washers if this is done.
I will research what this means and look into it. Is this something I would be able to potentially do myself? Thanks!
Thank for the info, eases my mind a bit. It just sounds like it should be doing some sort of damage, makes me wince every time.
I could not open the pdf here. Not sure if an issue with link. So there is a possibility of some sort of failure? What is the difference between the 350 that warranted recall while the 250 did not?
I will research what this means and look into it. Is this something I would be able to potentially do myself? Thanks!
As for the Banjo bolt, each head has a feed tube from the block to supply the VVTi so it can manage its controlled oil leak into the 4 cams. When the bolt is extracted, a filter can be withdrawn and replaced or cleaned. The crush washers are to prevent seepage. Go with new. You can even by new screens...
Sad picture but here is a feed tube and a banjo bolt at each end. A banjo bolt passes oil from its shank to the bolts end through its drilled out center core.
Here is a link and a couple paragraphs on the oil leak down situation when off. In the picture is the hole for the locking pin. The problem that comes into play is the lobes of the cam and their associated spring pressures tries to rotate the cams forward sometimes and backwards at low cranking speeds. Thus the sound you hear is pretty toxic until the cam either gets locked by the pin or the system fills the chambers locking the the position hydraulically.
In the ideal world the lock pin prevents the inner rotor from banging back and forth until oil pressure forces it off its seat and the solenoid directs pressure to the chambers to position and hold cam timing at #.##°.
On the left at about 10:00 o'clock is a spring in that hole. Under it, the lock pin, that protrudes through locking the gear to cam so they rotate as one. Which is what should happen during startup.
If absolutely nothing else, this information has answered a burning question about these cams that I've had since day 1: If not to rotate the cams on the engine for some reason, why is that hex cast into the cam? Answer: holding fixture.
One of those things that makes you feel dumb after you learn it...
Not sure if this helps any but this is on my service history glad it was tooken care of
Service:
Description: MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: B ~|~MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: BMOVED TO: 126497C LINE: B MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: B MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: B MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: B MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: B MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: B MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: B MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: BMOVED TO: 126497C LINE: C ~|~MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: CMOVED TO: 126497C LINE: C MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: C MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: C MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: C MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: C MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: C MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: C MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: C MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: C MOVED ... READ MORE
Service: MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: A
Description: MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: A ~|~MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: A
Service: MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: D
Description: MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: D ~|~MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: D
Service: MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: E
Description: MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: E ~|~MOVED TO: 126497C LINE: E
Service: R&R BANK 1 & BANK 2 INTAKE CAMSHAFT GEAR ASSY
Description: R&R BANK 1 & BANK 2 INTAKE CAMSHAFT GEAR ASSY ~|~MISCELLANEOUS ENGINE MECHANICAL - LOUD KNOCKING SOUND CAN BE HEARD RIGHT AFTER INITIAL START ESPECIALLY COD START. PERFORM DIAGNOSIS ~|~FOUND CAM GEARS FAILURE ~|~50191 FOUND CAM GEAR
06-16-19, 07:48 PM
IS250 Cam Gear Rattle Inquiry
