Supra parts are going back in production!
05-21-19, 10:16 AM
#1
Supra parts are going back in production!
Yay!
http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/toyo...jGAtngT1Ji59vo
There’s some great news coming down the pike for Toyotaku. Toyota will soon make parts again for the A70 and A80 Supra. The news was revealed by none other than Shigeki Tomoyama, head of Gazoo Racing and A80 owner, at the Japanese launch of the new Supra on May 17.
05-21-19, 01:13 PM
#3
Good news! Now let's see exactly which parts they decide to reproduce, which they keep in production that have never stopped and for the MKIV owners which (if any) LHD specific or Export 2JZGTE specific parts are reproduced. Hope they consider world market Supra A70's and A80's as well as Japan RHD models.
The only parts that I'm fairly certain will not be reproduced are V160's and V161's since Getrag is still bitter about their relationship with Toyota over those transmissions. Replacement parts for the V transmissions would be nice but I also don't see that happening.
Everything else though...
The only parts that I'm fairly certain will not be reproduced are V160's and V161's since Getrag is still bitter about their relationship with Toyota over those transmissions. Replacement parts for the V transmissions would be nice but I also don't see that happening.
Everything else though...
05-24-19, 01:43 PM
#6
05-24-19, 01:51 PM
#7
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No kidding. I missed my chance to get some of the NAS ones made by Toyolex when they were $399. They've raised the the price to $729 recently and it's just insane. I really this helps the affordability.
Last edited by PrimeRibSC; 05-24-19 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Missed Quote
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05-24-19, 04:50 PM
#9
Good news! Now let's see exactly which parts they decide to reproduce, which they keep in production that have never stopped and for the MKIV owners which (if any) LHD specific or Export 2JZGTE specific parts are reproduced. Hope they consider world market Supra A70's and A80's as well as Japan RHD models.
The only parts that I'm fairly certain will not be reproduced are V160's and V161's since Getrag is still bitter about their relationship with Toyota over those transmissions. Replacement parts for the V transmissions would be nice but I also don't see that happening.
Everything else though...
The only parts that I'm fairly certain will not be reproduced are V160's and V161's since Getrag is still bitter about their relationship with Toyota over those transmissions. Replacement parts for the V transmissions would be nice but I also don't see that happening.
Everything else though...
Why the bitter relationship between getrag and toyota?
05-25-19, 01:12 AM
#10
It's a long story and there are threads on SupraForums and the SupraMKV forum where posters can tell it better than I can but the gist of it has to do directly with the V160/V161 program between Toyota and Getrag. It is something along the lines of Toyota having commissioned that extremely strong Type 233 gearbox from them which, if you've experienced one, pays the price of being ever so slightly noisy as a tradeoff for all its strength and durability.
I believe the key issue that Getrag had with them at the time was that they claim Toyota didn't properly train dealers and their technicians (perhaps only in the USA or other Export markets and not so much in Japan??) to accurately differentiate between what was to be considered normal transmission noise as part of its very design and truly abnormal transmission noise that would indicate an actual problem... rather than just a quirk of what it sounded like normally.
What I gleaned from various threads where people were talking about what happened back then was that at least some dealer techs responded to customer complaints over transmission noise that was actually perfectly normal as per the Getrag's design by doing full warranty replacements on those V160's. When Getrag noticed that this was happening quite a lot they investigated (or maybe they had to investigate by means of the warranty return gearboxes being sent back to them?) and when they discovered that nothing was wrong they tried to address this with Toyota corporate but I guess no mutual solution (ie: better dealer tech training?) was arrived upon.
That's how I heard it.
The V160 and V161 were contracted for full parts and gearbox production support for a number of years legally and sometime around... 2013 I think... that legal contract expired and with that Getrag immediately pulled the plug and wiped their hands of any V160/1 support since they no longer legally had to. They wanted nothing to do with Toyota or any future collaborations after that. It's sad that after all this time the relationship between the two companies has not been mended.
The Type 233 Getrag which is the basis of the V160/1 is also the basis for the 6-speed manual in, I believe, the BMW 850CSI V12 (or some other BMW) and also later Nissan asked for a custom version of the Type 233 internals to be the basis for their AWD 6-speed manual in the 1998-2002 Skyline R34 GT-R because Nissan engineers were so impressed with the Supra MKIV's 6-speed manual gearbox.
Tellingly as to just how sour Getrag became on Toyota, they abruptly cut off all parts support and production of the Toyota V160/1 as soon as they were legally allowed to do so following the long term contract expiration... but even after similar long term support contracts with BMW and Nissan for their Type 233 gearboxes had also expired Getrag seems to have kept on producing parts for them or at least they are on a batch-by-batch basis if either manufacturer requests a replenishment.
This is probably why Nissan may have no trouble offering any R34 GT-R transmission replacement transmissions and transmission parts under their Nissan Heritage Parts Program while the same cannot be said for Toyota's MKIV Supra under their newly announced Heritage Parts program for the A80 Supra (the A70 Supra should have no trouble with R154 transmissions and replacement parts since Aisin still makes those today).
The aftermarket has stepped up in some cases to produce some new replacement MKIV Getrag internal parts but the trouble is that making say a replacement gearset that matches the V160/1 transmission's OE specs and strength is REALLY difficult due to the advanced metallurgy involved.
Anyway this is the version of the story that I learned. If anyone with better knowledge about it can chime in please feel free to do so.
I believe the key issue that Getrag had with them at the time was that they claim Toyota didn't properly train dealers and their technicians (perhaps only in the USA or other Export markets and not so much in Japan??) to accurately differentiate between what was to be considered normal transmission noise as part of its very design and truly abnormal transmission noise that would indicate an actual problem... rather than just a quirk of what it sounded like normally.
What I gleaned from various threads where people were talking about what happened back then was that at least some dealer techs responded to customer complaints over transmission noise that was actually perfectly normal as per the Getrag's design by doing full warranty replacements on those V160's. When Getrag noticed that this was happening quite a lot they investigated (or maybe they had to investigate by means of the warranty return gearboxes being sent back to them?) and when they discovered that nothing was wrong they tried to address this with Toyota corporate but I guess no mutual solution (ie: better dealer tech training?) was arrived upon.
That's how I heard it.
The V160 and V161 were contracted for full parts and gearbox production support for a number of years legally and sometime around... 2013 I think... that legal contract expired and with that Getrag immediately pulled the plug and wiped their hands of any V160/1 support since they no longer legally had to. They wanted nothing to do with Toyota or any future collaborations after that. It's sad that after all this time the relationship between the two companies has not been mended.
The Type 233 Getrag which is the basis of the V160/1 is also the basis for the 6-speed manual in, I believe, the BMW 850CSI V12 (or some other BMW) and also later Nissan asked for a custom version of the Type 233 internals to be the basis for their AWD 6-speed manual in the 1998-2002 Skyline R34 GT-R because Nissan engineers were so impressed with the Supra MKIV's 6-speed manual gearbox.
Tellingly as to just how sour Getrag became on Toyota, they abruptly cut off all parts support and production of the Toyota V160/1 as soon as they were legally allowed to do so following the long term contract expiration... but even after similar long term support contracts with BMW and Nissan for their Type 233 gearboxes had also expired Getrag seems to have kept on producing parts for them or at least they are on a batch-by-batch basis if either manufacturer requests a replenishment.
This is probably why Nissan may have no trouble offering any R34 GT-R transmission replacement transmissions and transmission parts under their Nissan Heritage Parts Program while the same cannot be said for Toyota's MKIV Supra under their newly announced Heritage Parts program for the A80 Supra (the A70 Supra should have no trouble with R154 transmissions and replacement parts since Aisin still makes those today).
The aftermarket has stepped up in some cases to produce some new replacement MKIV Getrag internal parts but the trouble is that making say a replacement gearset that matches the V160/1 transmission's OE specs and strength is REALLY difficult due to the advanced metallurgy involved.
Anyway this is the version of the story that I learned. If anyone with better knowledge about it can chime in please feel free to do so.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 05-25-19 at 01:20 AM.
05-25-19, 06:40 AM
#11
It's a long story and there are threads on SupraForums and the SupraMKV forum where posters can tell it better than I can but the gist of it has to do directly with the V160/V161 program between Toyota and Getrag. It is something along the lines of Toyota having commissioned that extremely strong Type 233 gearbox from them which, if you've experienced one, pays the price of being ever so slightly noisy as a tradeoff for all its strength and durability.
I believe the key issue that Getrag had with them at the time was that they claim Toyota didn't properly train dealers and their technicians (perhaps only in the USA or other Export markets and not so much in Japan??) to accurately differentiate between what was to be considered normal transmission noise as part of its very design and truly abnormal transmission noise that would indicate an actual problem... rather than just a quirk of what it sounded like normally.
What I gleaned from various threads where people were talking about what happened back then was that at least some dealer techs responded to customer complaints over transmission noise that was actually perfectly normal as per the Getrag's design by doing full warranty replacements on those V160's. When Getrag noticed that this was happening quite a lot they investigated (or maybe they had to investigate by means of the warranty return gearboxes being sent back to them?) and when they discovered that nothing was wrong they tried to address this with Toyota corporate but I guess no mutual solution (ie: better dealer tech training?) was arrived upon.
That's how I heard it.
The V160 and V161 were contracted for full parts and gearbox production support for a number of years legally and sometime around... 2013 I think... that legal contract expired and with that Getrag immediately pulled the plug and wiped their hands of any V160/1 support since they no longer legally had to. They wanted nothing to do with Toyota or any future collaborations after that. It's sad that after all this time the relationship between the two companies has not been mended.
The Type 233 Getrag which is the basis of the V160/1 is also the basis for the 6-speed manual in, I believe, the BMW 850CSI V12 (or some other BMW) and also later Nissan asked for a custom version of the Type 233 internals to be the basis for their AWD 6-speed manual in the 1998-2002 Skyline R34 GT-R because Nissan engineers were so impressed with the Supra MKIV's 6-speed manual gearbox.
Tellingly as to just how sour Getrag became on Toyota, they abruptly cut off all parts support and production of the Toyota V160/1 as soon as they were legally allowed to do so following the long term contract expiration... but even after similar long term support contracts with BMW and Nissan for their Type 233 gearboxes had also expired Getrag seems to have kept on producing parts for them or at least they are on a batch-by-batch basis if either manufacturer requests a replenishment.
This is probably why Nissan may have no trouble offering any R34 GT-R transmission replacement transmissions and transmission parts under their Nissan Heritage Parts Program while the same cannot be said for Toyota's MKIV Supra under their newly announced Heritage Parts program for the A80 Supra (the A70 Supra should have no trouble with R154 transmissions and replacement parts since Aisin still makes those today).
The aftermarket has stepped up in some cases to produce some new replacement MKIV Getrag internal parts but the trouble is that making say a replacement gearset that matches the V160/1 transmission's OE specs and strength is REALLY difficult due to the advanced metallurgy involved.
Anyway this is the version of the story that I learned. If anyone with better knowledge about it can chime in please feel free to do so.
I believe the key issue that Getrag had with them at the time was that they claim Toyota didn't properly train dealers and their technicians (perhaps only in the USA or other Export markets and not so much in Japan??) to accurately differentiate between what was to be considered normal transmission noise as part of its very design and truly abnormal transmission noise that would indicate an actual problem... rather than just a quirk of what it sounded like normally.
What I gleaned from various threads where people were talking about what happened back then was that at least some dealer techs responded to customer complaints over transmission noise that was actually perfectly normal as per the Getrag's design by doing full warranty replacements on those V160's. When Getrag noticed that this was happening quite a lot they investigated (or maybe they had to investigate by means of the warranty return gearboxes being sent back to them?) and when they discovered that nothing was wrong they tried to address this with Toyota corporate but I guess no mutual solution (ie: better dealer tech training?) was arrived upon.
That's how I heard it.
The V160 and V161 were contracted for full parts and gearbox production support for a number of years legally and sometime around... 2013 I think... that legal contract expired and with that Getrag immediately pulled the plug and wiped their hands of any V160/1 support since they no longer legally had to. They wanted nothing to do with Toyota or any future collaborations after that. It's sad that after all this time the relationship between the two companies has not been mended.
The Type 233 Getrag which is the basis of the V160/1 is also the basis for the 6-speed manual in, I believe, the BMW 850CSI V12 (or some other BMW) and also later Nissan asked for a custom version of the Type 233 internals to be the basis for their AWD 6-speed manual in the 1998-2002 Skyline R34 GT-R because Nissan engineers were so impressed with the Supra MKIV's 6-speed manual gearbox.
Tellingly as to just how sour Getrag became on Toyota, they abruptly cut off all parts support and production of the Toyota V160/1 as soon as they were legally allowed to do so following the long term contract expiration... but even after similar long term support contracts with BMW and Nissan for their Type 233 gearboxes had also expired Getrag seems to have kept on producing parts for them or at least they are on a batch-by-batch basis if either manufacturer requests a replenishment.
This is probably why Nissan may have no trouble offering any R34 GT-R transmission replacement transmissions and transmission parts under their Nissan Heritage Parts Program while the same cannot be said for Toyota's MKIV Supra under their newly announced Heritage Parts program for the A80 Supra (the A70 Supra should have no trouble with R154 transmissions and replacement parts since Aisin still makes those today).
The aftermarket has stepped up in some cases to produce some new replacement MKIV Getrag internal parts but the trouble is that making say a replacement gearset that matches the V160/1 transmission's OE specs and strength is REALLY difficult due to the advanced metallurgy involved.
Anyway this is the version of the story that I learned. If anyone with better knowledge about it can chime in please feel free to do so.
Yeah i hate how strong our engines are when the rest of the Sc needs upgrading lol too bad we didn't get the Getrag just a weak w58 lol
05-25-19, 01:29 PM
#12
The W58 is a very good transmission... just not for the shock loading that a very high powered turbo setup gives it or above a certain general torque range. Toyota used it with their 1G-GTE 2.0L inline-six twin turbo engine in Japan after all but of course that engine is no 1JZ-GTE let alone a 2JZ-GTE (or JZ NA-T). It's not even on the same level as a 7M-GTE.
The V160 in more cars than just the Supra would have been great but I feel it's a greater loss that we never got the R154 in our SC's from the factory especially since the car was already engineered for it. And by extension of course it's a loss that we didn't get a USDM 1JZ-GTE at any time during the SC's production with or without the R154.
The rift between Getrag and Toyota is just sad. It seems that it could have been easily avoided. Whatever the situation was with warranty claims on those transmissions when the cars were still new or still under warranty I just find it weird because I've never heard of anyone in the Supra or JZ community complain of actual failures from regular use or any design issues with the V160 and V161 other than that they are by design just a little noisy and notchy and are quieter when they retain their LUK dual mass flywheels... certainly not things to file a warranty claim over.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 05-25-19 at 01:33 PM.
05-26-19, 01:01 AM
#14
^^ I thought that too but apparently just because Getrag is owned by Magna it doesn't mean there is any change in their upper management or department heads who may have had experience with the V160 project years ago. Maybe some the people who were directly tasked with dealing with Toyota on this on the technical side years ago got promoted to upper management at Getrag by now some 20+ years later and it is they who strongly hold a grudge all these years later. Hard to say beyond the rift and the abrupt cutting of ties once the long term contract's legal obligations on Getrag's part finally ended.
