smitty2919

Car is an 08 250AWD with freshly turned stock rotors, Hawk HPS pads in front and stock no name rear pads. I have re-bed the pads to the rotors after turning them but the initial bite of these brakes still sucks. Car also has new fluid and freshly greased slider pins.

I had a2004 GTO back in the day that also suffered from ****ty brakes in stock form. The solution was to run bigger 05/06 GTO front setup. I ASSUME this car would have adequate brakes given the Lexus pedigree, but maybe I'm wrong?

I see a lot going to 350 front setup but we JUST turned the rotors and put the Hawk pads on maybe 2000mi ago. Nothing has been improved. I have a 03 2500HD Silverado with Hawk HPS pads that has better initial bite than this car.

Is there something I'm missing? Do the stock 250 brakes suck that much? Maybe a new drake pad option?? My wife's last car 2006 Accord EX stopped better as well with generic Autozone pads/rotors lol.

XSV

iTrader: (1)

Never had any problems with stock brakes. I did upgrade mine to the 350 brakes just for looks. I don't really notice a difference in braking for DD between the two.

primavera

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/hawk-...iving-1088649/

Jeff Lange

iTrader: (1)

The stock IS250 brakes have decent bite when working properly, brake feel is about the same between the IS250 and IS350. That of course only applies to the cars when new.

The 2008 IS250 would have come with the high friction Textar T4146 pads and they like to eat rotors, but they have great initial bite and pedal feel.

New components would probably help you out, and if you're going that direction, the IS350 brakes are a good upgrade.

Jeff

smitty2919

Thanks Jeff Lange.

It's the initial bite that is lacking. The car will stop but I feel you have to press the pedal too hard to get the car to slow down. Everything is "new" (freshly turned rotors, pads are within 2000mi, everything greased and brakes flushed 2000mi ago) relatively speaking.

Actually I had also replaced both front calipers since the driver slide pins were so corroded and frozen in they broke when servicing them and the passenger side prison seal leaked fluid on the wheel. I replaced them with reman calipers.

I would entertain new pads with more initial bite that don't dust. I forget what I took off but the fronts would dust pretty bad for a DD car.

I had PM'd redspencer here since he tracks his car and he mentioned Akenobo pads? I would be ecstatic just swapping to a different pad for more initial bite but little to no dust. It's my wife's DD so I don't need a pad with high heat capabilities.

I autocross my 95 Z28 Camaro on HP+ pads and they dust/squeal like crazy. NOT something for a DD or a wife that does not want to clean wheels every week.

2013FSport

iTrader: (2)

Because you mentioned applying a lot of pressure doesn't change much this may not help.

That said get a helper and try it.


Helper applies firm pedal pressure. Now tap on the bottom of the caliper with dead blow or hardwood in an upward fashion. This will dislodge trapped air and while under pressure condense small bubbles into larger ones that break free and rise to the bleeder.
Crack bleeder (with hose attached) and seal as pedal bottoms. Repeat 5X. Do all calipers.

The return is a tiny press of the pedal is very responsive and may mimic that perceived loss of bite.

sinister2c

Maybe the master cylinder is getting old and worn? I haven't seen or heard much about them going out on the 2IS but I've had Honda's with bad MC and it was night and day braking difference when replaced.

smitty2919

I'd like to drive another IS250 with similar miles and see how those brakes are. I have nothing to compare this car to. I hate throwing parts at a car. Especially when we are talking new calipers/rotors/pads and or MC's...

2013FSport

iTrader: (2)

Trapped air from a caliper swap is very likely. Pressurize, tap on calipers, and bleed brakes again. It makes a huge difference.

What process did you do?
If the process was pumping with the bleeder open into a hose submerged in fluid, that would explain this. A sucky useless pedal.

smitty2919

I did the usual bleeding process of having someone pump the pedal while I crack the bleeder and drain into a can.

Depress pedal
Crack bleeder
Pedal goes to the floor
Close bleeder
Release pedal
Repeat process.

This is now the third person that has mentioned air in the system....someone on a FB post mentioned it too....I've never had issues doing that bleeding process in the past with vehicles, but maybe this one is harder to get air out. I have a pressure bleeder but I need to get a cap adapter to use it.

I've been doing some digging and asking people (even calling Stoptech) about pad selection. A local 250 owner may meet up with me to discuss this and drive each others cars to see if something is wrong with ours. He used to work at Lexus so that will be nice to get some tips. I see many do not like the Hawk HPS for these cars, but prefer StopTech Street pads.

I switched the pads since we bought the car uses at a BIG multi car dealership and I had no clue what was on the car, the braking sucked and they dusted too much for our liking being a DD. And I have yet to get the the initial bite and feeling of the pads grabbing to where my wife and I like it.

StopTech mentioned their Street Pads compounds are application specific. So since the IS250 OEM pads are semi-ceramic (according to StopTech), so are the StopTech pads. The HPS pads are "ferro-carbon" compound and they fixed the dusting issue we had but never fixed the initial bite. Some mention thee the StopTechs have LESS initial bite as OEM pads and it seem many do not like the HPS so I've entertained getting OEM pads.

I'll look to re-bleed the brakes, tapping on the calipers and see if I can get any air out first.

CochyGS

is there a certain order the calipers should be bled? I'm replacing a caliper this weekend and would really like little to no problems

smitty2919

2013FSport

iTrader: (2)

True until you find those cars that split the MC brake distribution diagonally fore / aft. I guess the logic there is no matter which side of the MC fails (front or rear section) you still have one front brake to do the stopping.

smitty2919

I did the method suggested by 2013FSport today.

Press pedal
Tap caliper with a dead blow hammer
Crack open bleeder
Close Bleeder
Release pedal

While I did not SEE any bubbles come out, it seems like it made a slight improvement. I think I am going to swap out the rear pads to some StopTech ones since I noticed they are getting low and have NO clue what brand they are or how many miles they have on them. Maybe the reduced bite is due to rear not grabbing hard enough.