Rust issues?
03-18-18, 11:25 AM
#1
Rookie
Thread Starter
Rust issues?
I live in Southeast Florida , on A1A, which has the ocean on one side and the intercoastal waterway on the other side of the road. Unfortunately, there is no garage where I park, so the car is open to the weather. I have a buddy who also has a 2016 E350, in the same situation as me, and has had to replace rotors, calipers and brake pads at less than 2 years at around 7500 miles due to extreme rust issues. We both leased the cars within a month of each other in Dec./Jan 2016. I checked under the car while it was up on the lift at my last oil change at 9500 miles and didn't find any measuarable rust anywhere..
I guess my question is --- are there any rust issues connected with the 2016 Lexus E350 that I should be concerned with?
Many of my neighbors say flat out they sell their car every three years because of the rust issues living near the ocean. Judging from what I'm seeing with mine, I don't see any problem at all.
Anyone know how rust resistant the Lexus is compared to other cars?
What should I expect!
Thanks,
Jay
I guess my question is --- are there any rust issues connected with the 2016 Lexus E350 that I should be concerned with?
Many of my neighbors say flat out they sell their car every three years because of the rust issues living near the ocean. Judging from what I'm seeing with mine, I don't see any problem at all.
Anyone know how rust resistant the Lexus is compared to other cars?
What should I expect!
Thanks,
Jay
03-18-18, 12:12 PM
#3
Rookie
Thread Starter
Rust issues
97SC300,
I guess I didn't phrase the question correctly.Having owned M(R)ustangs, I am well aware how damaging rust is. My question should have been---Does the Lexus have rust problems GREATER than other comparable cars? I can handle and control normal rusting, but if the design, fit and finish is poor, or there is/are there particular areas that are particularly vulnerable (such as the floorboards and cowls of the first generation Mustang) then the result will be worse rust than what is normal. That's what I'm trying to pin down!
It just seems strange to me that my friend and I have the same car, the same age, and the same conditions, leased at the same dealer at the same time,yet he has had problems with rust and I haven't.
I can't find any any indication of any systemic problem in any searchable place on the net, nor are there any TSB's on the possible problem, so I thought I'd try here, where you owners would know better than anyone whether there is or is not a rust problem. I suppose there is the REMOTE possibility that his car was parked in the dealer's lot in a place that was prone to puddles and/or minor flooding or was stored for a longer time than mine in a damp area, but that REALLY stretches belief!
More than likely, his problem was a fluke!
Thanks for your response.
Jay
I guess I didn't phrase the question correctly.Having owned M(R)ustangs, I am well aware how damaging rust is. My question should have been---Does the Lexus have rust problems GREATER than other comparable cars? I can handle and control normal rusting, but if the design, fit and finish is poor, or there is/are there particular areas that are particularly vulnerable (such as the floorboards and cowls of the first generation Mustang) then the result will be worse rust than what is normal. That's what I'm trying to pin down!
It just seems strange to me that my friend and I have the same car, the same age, and the same conditions, leased at the same dealer at the same time,yet he has had problems with rust and I haven't.
I can't find any any indication of any systemic problem in any searchable place on the net, nor are there any TSB's on the possible problem, so I thought I'd try here, where you owners would know better than anyone whether there is or is not a rust problem. I suppose there is the REMOTE possibility that his car was parked in the dealer's lot in a place that was prone to puddles and/or minor flooding or was stored for a longer time than mine in a damp area, but that REALLY stretches belief!
More than likely, his problem was a fluke!
Thanks for your response.
Jay
03-18-18, 12:42 PM
#4
Well,
95% of the cars we do at our shop are German. Mainly BMW and Porsche but a good amount of Mercedes and Audi as well.
German cars most definitely have far better corrosion and rust protection than Japanese and American cars.
If you look at any new BMW you'll see tons of Cosmoline/body wax coming out of every drain hole of every panel. Pop the hood and you will see the same corrosion protection between metal panels, in every seam, between pinch welds, etc. Again you do not get this in Japanese cars.
This is body panel protection. This is why you rarely see any German cars rusting even after 25+ years. I think the only German cars that rusted in recent times were the 2000-2007ish era Mercedes C,E,and S Class cars when there was very apparent cost cutting. I've seen quite a few with rotting door panels along the center body molding and other parts.
German cars also have better paint in general over Japanese cars. Germans do not have the same regulations and can use a much harder clearcoat that is more resistant to scratching and failing over time. Japanese cars, especially the newer ones, have softer paint due to their regulations so they swirl and scratch quicker.
Most Japanese cars also use thinner/cheaper e-coating on their undercarriage parts (subframes, control arms, sway bars, brackets, etc.) so they do not hold up to salt as well as the underbodies of German vehicles that use much better paint on the underside.
Aluminum is pretty exposed to corrosion no matter what make and model. I've seen brand new M3s and M4s (one of the most common cars we do) right off the truck with 5 miles corroded to hell (engine head/block, most of the suspension is all aluminum as well as most of the undercarriage). Most high end calipers are aluminum so they are also prone to corrosion. Brembo and other high end calipers usually come coated but Lexus and other oem aluminum calipers are not coated with anything so corrosion will set in after salt exposure which leads to seized calipers and other issues. No way around it.
In short, Lexus is NOT the leader in the best paint/corrosion protection. Nowhere close to it. However, uncoated aluminum will be subject to corrosion on any car.
95% of the cars we do at our shop are German. Mainly BMW and Porsche but a good amount of Mercedes and Audi as well.
German cars most definitely have far better corrosion and rust protection than Japanese and American cars.
If you look at any new BMW you'll see tons of Cosmoline/body wax coming out of every drain hole of every panel. Pop the hood and you will see the same corrosion protection between metal panels, in every seam, between pinch welds, etc. Again you do not get this in Japanese cars.
This is body panel protection. This is why you rarely see any German cars rusting even after 25+ years. I think the only German cars that rusted in recent times were the 2000-2007ish era Mercedes C,E,and S Class cars when there was very apparent cost cutting. I've seen quite a few with rotting door panels along the center body molding and other parts.
German cars also have better paint in general over Japanese cars. Germans do not have the same regulations and can use a much harder clearcoat that is more resistant to scratching and failing over time. Japanese cars, especially the newer ones, have softer paint due to their regulations so they swirl and scratch quicker.
Most Japanese cars also use thinner/cheaper e-coating on their undercarriage parts (subframes, control arms, sway bars, brackets, etc.) so they do not hold up to salt as well as the underbodies of German vehicles that use much better paint on the underside.
Aluminum is pretty exposed to corrosion no matter what make and model. I've seen brand new M3s and M4s (one of the most common cars we do) right off the truck with 5 miles corroded to hell (engine head/block, most of the suspension is all aluminum as well as most of the undercarriage). Most high end calipers are aluminum so they are also prone to corrosion. Brembo and other high end calipers usually come coated but Lexus and other oem aluminum calipers are not coated with anything so corrosion will set in after salt exposure which leads to seized calipers and other issues. No way around it.
In short, Lexus is NOT the leader in the best paint/corrosion protection. Nowhere close to it. However, uncoated aluminum will be subject to corrosion on any car.
03-18-18, 12:51 PM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
I don’t find Toyota or Lexus products to be superior in rust prevention etc. I think they are competitive. With that said, mileage does have a factor IMO as well as whether it’s been stored in a heated garage.
Lexus cars have never really had issues with rust. Your ES is not known. Toyota products such as the American made Tacoma’s and Tundras have frame rust issues. Never seen the ES have these problems.
Lexus cars have never really had issues with rust. Your ES is not known. Toyota products such as the American made Tacoma’s and Tundras have frame rust issues. Never seen the ES have these problems.
03-18-18, 12:56 PM
#6
Lexus Champion
What I do see is German cars tend to be scrapped much sooner than Toyota.
03-18-18, 01:05 PM
#7
I visit local salvage yards frequently and I don't see this at all. German makes have exactly the same rust prone areas and body rust as any other. Also the claims that German auto makers use galvanized body panels is false, not the ones I've seen which are generally 10 years or older. I see VW's with rotted out fenders, rockers, quarter panels etc. like you'll find on most any old car.
What I do see is German cars tend to be scrapped much sooner than Toyota.
What I do see is German cars tend to be scrapped much sooner than Toyota.
There is no argument that they have better rust protection. VW is made in Mexico for the most part which is why I did not include it in my response. Can't compare BMW to VW lol.
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03-18-18, 01:06 PM
#8
Rookie
Thread Starter
Rust issues
97SC300,
Now, THAT was an informative answer!!! Very well documented, and very well presented! You have helped very much in explaining why this could be a problem in a Lexus.
Seems to me that frequent inspection and remediation will have to be done to keep ahead of rust!
Thanks very much!
I will soon have to decide whether to return the car at lease end or buy it. Not an easy choice! It's definitely a better car than I could buy for the same price as the residual. And my E350 will barely touch 14K miles at lease end. Since pretty much all the other cars I would consider are lesser Japanese makes, sharing the same possible problems, it's become more apparent that if I'm going to be "rust watching", I might as well keep the more comfortable, luxurious car!
Thanks again,
Jay
P.S. Let's not even mention all the makers involved in class action suits for excessive oil consumption!!! That REALLY got me thinking.
When I first starting driving (back in the prehistoric 50"s) we had to start almost each day with an pre-drive oil check. I can't believe we're almost back to that today, especially with some of the German cars. Just goes to show----nothing is perfect, you have to choose your battle!
Jay
Now, THAT was an informative answer!!! Very well documented, and very well presented! You have helped very much in explaining why this could be a problem in a Lexus.
Seems to me that frequent inspection and remediation will have to be done to keep ahead of rust!
Thanks very much!
I will soon have to decide whether to return the car at lease end or buy it. Not an easy choice! It's definitely a better car than I could buy for the same price as the residual. And my E350 will barely touch 14K miles at lease end. Since pretty much all the other cars I would consider are lesser Japanese makes, sharing the same possible problems, it's become more apparent that if I'm going to be "rust watching", I might as well keep the more comfortable, luxurious car!
Thanks again,
Jay
P.S. Let's not even mention all the makers involved in class action suits for excessive oil consumption!!! That REALLY got me thinking.
When I first starting driving (back in the prehistoric 50"s) we had to start almost each day with an pre-drive oil check. I can't believe we're almost back to that today, especially with some of the German cars. Just goes to show----nothing is perfect, you have to choose your battle!
Jay
03-18-18, 01:07 PM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
I visit local salvage yards frequently and I don't see this at all. German makes have exactly the same rust prone areas and body rust as any other. Also the claims that German auto makers use galvanized body panels is false, not the ones I've seen which are generally 10 years or older. I see VW's with rotted out fenders, rockers, quarter panels etc. like you'll find on most any old car.
What I do see is German cars tend to be scrapped much sooner than Toyota.
What I do see is German cars tend to be scrapped much sooner than Toyota.
03-18-18, 01:09 PM
#10
That ocean spray/salty air doesn't rust out your rockers, floorboards, inner fenders like driving on salt covered roads. Instead it attacks your car from the top down. IE if you have a rock chip that goes to bare metal and don't touch it up right away, the salt will start to rust in that spot and rust under surrounding paint.
03-18-18, 01:10 PM
#11
I am no fan of German cars but let's give credit where credit is due....they make original designs, they are the first to do ALOT of things, they offer more variety in their products, and they have superior metal, paint, and rust protection. And that's not an opinion.
03-18-18, 01:14 PM
#12
That ocean spray/salty air doesn't rust out your rockers, floorboards, inner fenders like driving on salt covered roads. Instead it attacks your car from the top down. IE if you have a rock chip that goes to bare metal and don't touch it up right away, the salt will start to rust in that spot and rust under surrounding paint.
There are many products available to protect metail from rusting and corrosion.
A few notable ones are Fluid Film, Boeshield T9, and Amsoil MPHD. None of these products can be used on the inside of brake calipers.
The issue with calipers seizing is that you do not want to get any of these sprays in that area so you're kinda screwed. When the pistons in your calipers seize due to corrosion, you either rebuild them with new parts or buy new ones.
03-18-18, 01:16 PM
#13
Lexus Champion
Since you 100% sure, why in your opinion are German cars better at preventing rust.
03-18-18, 01:18 PM
#14
We still have our old 01 ES300 and had to replace ALL calipers on that car. The front ones were replaced twice due to seizing. Up north, it's a common issue and something you just plan on doing when the time comes.
If your car is out of warranty, just get some aftermarket calipers with lifetime warranty, make sure you keep your receipt, and get a free replacement when they get seized again.
If your car is out of warranty, just get some aftermarket calipers with lifetime warranty, make sure you keep your receipt, and get a free replacement when they get seized again.
03-18-18, 01:21 PM
#15
If Toyota and Lexus can use their paint system it would be the best of both worlds, but sadly they cannot due to their environmental regulations in Japan.