pman6

That article on autoblog says carmakers are losing money on sedans. How can that be, unless they're giving fat incentives and discounts?
My dad told me there was a time when you could get 20 25% off msrp ages ago. Is now that time again?

I like to go against the grain.
Like most people who buy SUVs, I have no real practical use for an SUV. It's just wasted space and poor handling.

I guess times are good? Even with gas prices moderately high at $3.40 in socal, people are still buying gas guzzlers

mmarshall

Are you referring to 91-93 octane? I'd be surprised if 87 was that high, even in traditionally high-cost California. Here in the D.C. area, 87 is going for an average of between $2.40 - $2.60, with premium a little over $3.00. I wouldn't consider that high at all. In fact, we Americans enjoy some of the cheapest gas on the planet, outside of a few countries like Saudi Arabia or Venezuela which either produce a tremendous amount or heavily-subside the industry with government money.

It's nice to have an SUV's cargo-area and/or all-weather capability if you need to carry bulky furniture or get somewhere in a snowstorm. But, basically, I agree with you....sedans, in general, handle better and ride more comfortably, especially upmarket ones that are luxury-oriented. But there are also some nice-riding SUVs and, in some cases, even pickup trucks, if you know where to look. Also, keep in mind that many of today's SUVs also include a lot of crossover/unibody/car-like platforms that not only ride, drive, and steer more civilly, but also use a lot less gas than the old truck-based, body-on-frame models. Indeed, with many of today's crossover SUVs, their MPG averages are not much different from sedans.

There are a lot of variables, of course (including supply/demand). But, in general, big discounts are more likely on larger, more expensive, more-heavily-optioned vehicles, where there is a big mark-up between wholesale and retail, than on small, entry-level vehicles. For example, Ford and GM (supposedly) make as much as $8000-$10,000 profit on large, expensive trucks like the Ford King Ranch and Dodge Ram Longhorn. Something down on the other end of the spectrum, though, like the Chevy Spark, Kia Rio, or Ford Fiesta, with very little markup, is probably going to sell for close to list...and, if the manufacturers do offer an incentive on them, it probably won't be much, unless the manufacturer can afford to lose money on them.

Toys4RJill

mmarshall

That's on leftover 2017 Buicks, Jill, not the new ones....and, even then, the incentives vary quite a bit by model. The only incentives on 2018s are on the Envision.

http://www.buick.com/specials-and-offers

While official factory incentives on a Lincoln Continental are only $1500, actual dealer prices would probably be much lower, just to get them off of lots. This is a generally expensive car that is just not selling.

Toys4RJill

pman6

main article
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/02/19/...g-luxury-cars/

if there's such low demand for sedans, I want to get 20% discount on a japanese brand.

a $24000 sticker for $19200 ? That can't be impossible.

MattyG

Hope it's not this one, but the trend certainly accelerated over the last two decades.

https://www.autoblog.com/2006/10/03/...-on-every-car/

There's another article on the site that says even the Euro sedans are supposedly taking a hit as buyers flock to American pickup trucks tricked out to their door sills.

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/02/19/...g-luxury-cars/

Any of these stories can be taken with a certain amount of skepticism. Toyota and Honda are more than happy to sell Camrys and Accords, and even Ford sold a lot of Fusions last year despite signals that they want to stop selling them in NA. But the ease of getting in/out of a SUV/pickup and the improvements in ride/handling/interior certainly tell buyers that they have a complete range of options vs loading up a traditional sedan.

Toys4RJill

MattyG

Which is this one. Again, an article is an article - gets pitched and some reporter goes and chases it to write it. Nothing new but interesting to say the least. I wonder it's an auto writer who actually wrote it or a NYT staff writer.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/a...rucks-suv.html

Toys4RJill

Sulu

Let's hope that history does not repeat itself. That article from 2006 was foretelling the great bankruptcy crisis at GM and Chrysler that would happen 3 years later. The Detroit Three built trucks that buyers wanted, but built cars that nobody wanted and lost money on each one that they did sell (selling at great discount).

What else that 2006 article said -- and what I would not be surprised that it holds true to this day -- is that the Japanese automakers earn a profit on each car they sold. If this is true, don't expect a 20% discount on a nice Japanese sedan. Perhaps expect a 20% discount on a Buick or Chevrolet or Ford, but not a Toyota or Honda.

MattyG

That's the sort of worrisome aspect of SUV or pickup truck buyers. They will flock to these gigantic vehicles as family King/Queen wagon trucksters. I live in a town that's riddled with these types of luxe "pickups for hick-ups" as I call them because it's basically an all around vehicle with one person riding around in it. Drop off the kids to school and then that's it.

Sure they've made improvements to fuel economy and safety but ideally one wonders if these simply not bragging right vanity vehicles for people who are not really interested in anything other than the size of their "grill". I don't think there will be a fuel crisis so I think automakers are cashing in now to offset what they will have to do later.

EZZ

The camcords still have a huge premium over their competitors and they still sell a boatload. The Camry alone sold almost 2x the entire Buick lineup

Sedans are fine and they make a boatload of cash...if you are Honda and Toyota. Im positive BMW and Mercedes make a ton of money in their sedans too.

pman6

damn. So that means only a regular discount on reputable sedans, and a tiny discount on SUVs.

I was hoping for a fatter discount on sedans since SUVs are eating their lunch.

Anyone here negotiate a deal on a sedan lately?
When I got my 2007 GS, I haggled 12.5% off msrp. I'm hoping for a bigger percentage on my next car.

geko29

It only takes 5 seconds to check this yourself, rather than blindly challenging his assertion based on a market 2,300 miles away. Here's a station around the corner from my Aunt's house in La Quinta:

https://www.gasbuddy.com/station/39551

$3.35 for regular. Excluding Costco, the range is from $3.21 to $3.49.