FatherTo1

Hello CLers, I hope the title doesn't offend anyone. Our family has been devoted to Toyota/Lexus for decades and still drive two RXes (2000 and 2007), ES 330, LS 430, and LS 460.

I have been trying to upgrade the wife's ES to an SUV. The wife loves her ES and the only SUV she would consider is "one like Mom's", which is a 2007 RX. I don't think the wife would be comfortable with the size of the 2016+ RX and we would definitely be buying used. The 2007 RX seems a tad small to me and not roomy enough. I test drove a 2013 450h and although pleasant, there is just something missing.

Of course there's the NX but a used 2015 NX seems pricey for what you get and a 2010-2013 RX would be a better value. Besides reliability, I just don't find current Lexus SUVs all that compelling as they used to be. Perhaps competition is so much better now. I was really impressed by the F-Pace after a test drive, but reliability reared its ugly head despite improvements in that area for JLR. Consumer Reports shows abysmal reliability for a GLC, and the GLE seems too big (and expensive). What other models have you cross-shopped or considered with the RX? Did you go with the RX overall due to reliability? Thank you for the help. RX seems like the practical decision but there are more choices than ever and I want to make sure we consider all available options. We tend to keep cars a very long time, for instance the ES is 12 years old (and could probably go another 12 years without issue, which makes it tough to let go of).

salimshah

Can you create a rank ordered list of thing you dont like in 3rd gen RX and are looking for in the next purchase it would help in containing the problem.

What threw me off was the size issue with RX being small and yet you considered NX.

I feel that at the end [there is never a perfect vehicle], you will have to compromise on various things in your list, but it would help you move in the right direction.

Salim

Clutchless

Get a new RAV4 with everything on it. Better looking than the NX, cheaper and has about all the same stuff in the Limited or Platinum models. It is under $30,000 with skilled negotiating. I have been in one, and you may be surprised at the finish and features. Same engines etc as the NX. Plus it has the Toyota Safety Suite (active cruise control, pre-collision alert & braking, lane keeping assist, blind spot monitoring, parking assist, etc etc), which none of the used cars you are considering will have.
https://www.toyota.com/rav4/2018/features/mpg/4452

FatherTo1

Hi Salim, my apologies for the NX confusion. I should have phrased it better. I threw the NX in there in anticipation that others may suggest that as an alternative to the RX. The NX is often described as similar in size to the 1RX, so yes that would be too small since I consider a 2007 RX slightly small too.

Reliability would be the top, if not only, priority if you ask my wife. Honestly, I don't know why my wife even bought a Lexus (before we met) since she often mistakes a white Accord or Mazda6 in the parking lot for her car! Back in 2005, she was fresh out of dental school and her Plymouth Acclaim was giving her all sorts of problems and almost left her stranded. She wanted something reliable and went to a Lexus dealership and told them she needed a car that very day. Of course, they were all too happy to oblige. She definitely overpaid but, in the grand scheme of things, the ES has served her well for over 12 years with barely more than routine maintenance. I don't think my wife cares about anything else (style, power, technology, ergonomics, safety features, etc.) other than reliability. However, some of this is blissful ignorance and I think she would appreciate some of the new features in cars now.

Case in point, she likes that our LS has a backup camera (although she seems annoyed by the alarms from parking sensors and blind-spot sensors). She also likes that the LS can play music through BT/USB drive and that it monitors individual tire pressure. While a 2013 RX has those things too (I forgot to check if TPMS is available on the RX), the dash design seems sort of plain and the wife really doesn't like the remote-touch interface. The 2013 RX just didn't impress. There wasn't anything particularly wrong with the RX but it didn't seem like much of an upgrade over her aging 2006 ES, and some materials in her old ES actually outshine the RX. I suppose I'd like her to have something fresher and more engaging to drive, but with the reliability of a Lexus. Perhaps that compromise isn't available yet? I haven't test driven an RX F-Sport yet. I also accept that the RX may be perfect for my wife and perhaps I am letting my priorities trump what matters most to her. Still, I would like to learn what else is out there that appeals to the same crowd that is normally drawn to an RX?

FatherTo1

Thank you for the suggestion and help, Clutchless. I agree that the RAV4 offers more than the NX. At the same time, I'd like to stay with a premium/luxury brand for my wife. I don't mind a RAV4 for our daughter once she starts to drive, but my wife works hard and I feel she deserves the status that comes with Lexus. Neither of us wear designer clothes nor a lot of bling, but it would be a challenge to go from a Lexus back to a Toyota, no matter how nicely the Toyota is optioned.

Clutchless

Your wife will not like driving an F Sport, nor appreciate its minimally better handling. It does have a stiffer ride and costs more than a comparably equipped base RX. I think you should hunt for a fully loaded 2013 or newer 3rd Gen RX. They received a mid model refresh in 12 or 13 and have more amenities than the older ones. Other possibilites may be an Acura RDX or Lincoln MKX, which at least one car magazine called a better RX when comparing it to the 4th Gen. Not sure on their reliability.

The US News surveys of reviews and other data are a good place to look https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/...y-midsize-suvs

salimshah

Things registered are:
Upscale/higher_status brand vehicle
Equipped with fairly latest features.
Large(r) vehicle

Help us with the following
Seadan/Coupe
SUV(cross over)
Real Offroading capability
Towing capability
Seating capacity
Hybrid/electric/gas_only
New/2-3yrs old

Salim

FatherTo1

Thank you, Salim. Definitely SUV/Crossover. Realistically, we will never take it truly off-road, other than some brief dirt trail at a campsite. Three-row would be nice but most 3-row crossovers have really tight quarters in that last row. As such, 2-rows should be fine. I think the most we would try to tow is a pop-up camper, so 3500-lb tow rating should be more than sufficient. I didn't really like the transition between electric and ICE on the 450h, so I would say we are fine with gas only. It takes too long to break even on the hybrid premium anyways and the wife hasn't warmed up to full-electric yet. If only Tesla had an affordable mainstream SUV ready, then that might be under consideration. Until then, we will stick with something 3-5 years old.

FatherTo1

We also test drove a 2014 MDX Technology but were not impressed at all. It was very disappointing since it rates so well on paper and in reviews. In person the MDX wasn't particularly nimble as the SH-AWD would suggest. It was stylish outside but interior was a big downgrade compared to even our 2006 LS 430. MDX JBL stereo was terrible, I had to turn it off after a few minutes. Fitment and body gaps were inconsistent and just so much cheap plastic everywhere. I was excited about an MDX, until I met it in person. I liked the hidden storage beneath the cargo area but the third row was very cramped and only meant for kids or to punish an adult. If anything, the memory of the MDX test drive makes me appreciate the RX more.

Airbalance

Gampa

A 2018 Audi Q5 Premium, Premium Plus, or Prestige is my replacement... yes it would be new, but you would know of any abuse or neglect... and it would be cover under new car warranty for any problems. I Bought my wife the Prestige with most of the bells and whistles because the Lexus IS250 was too small with two child seats. I am looking to replace my 2010 RX450h some day. (My problem is I take too good of care to my current ones).
I Currently have Pirelli Scorpion Winters on the Q5 and it is a Beast in the snow. Best AWD I have ever driven.
The best part is that there is a calming factor knowing my wife is driving it. The car looks like a SUV but rides like the IS250 sports car.
...and besides, my wife deserves the best.

Clutchless

The 2019 redesigned Acura RDX was at the Detroit Auto Show. It appears much improved, better looking and more of a competitor to the RX. Acura/Honda finally ditched the 2 screen horrible infotainment system for an android based system.

http://autoweek.com/article/detroit-...roit-auto-show

FatherTo1

I hear ya, Airbalance, Tesla and Porsche are more exclusive. Lexus is still considered a luxury brand, or at the very least a premium brand. I did test drive a 2013 Cayenne. It was great, space-wise. The way the doors are contoured, it had more hip room than the LS in the second row! However, it rode very stiff, more so than I expected from the Porsche. Of course the Cayenne handled phenomenally, but it is more of a weekend toy to me than a daily driver. I also really liked a 2014 Range Rover Sport but the wife thought it looked like a bus. Plus, once she got wind of the reliability rating, the LR was out the door. Lastly, I would probably be more comfortable driving the RRS than my wife, due to the dimensions and I should focus back on an SUV/Crossover for her, not me.

FatherTo1

Congrats, Gampa. A Q5 may work. Thank you.

Thank you, Cluthless, will give it a look.

Clutchless

I think the Acura RDX may not be available until mid year.