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How do you feel about the look of Toyotas and Lexus of late? If you are enjoying the design of vehicles from the two brands then you have Ian Cartabiano to thank.
Personally I think the designs of Lexus have been getting worse over time, very mediocre and similar to the cheaper Japanese brands (Honda, acura , Nissan etc...)
The LC is the first breath of fresh air weve had in many years.
I used to wonder why its getting so bad but seeing now that the pride of Japan auto is being designed by a company from California its starting to make some sense.
Californias version of what they think a Japanese car should look like lol, not very authentic at all
Personally I think the designs of Lexus have been getting worse over time, very mediocre and similar to the cheaper Japanese brands (Honda, acura , Nissan etc...)
The LC is the first breath of fresh air weve had in many years.
I used to wonder why its getting so bad but seeing now that the pride of Japan auto is being designed by a company from California its starting to make some sense.
Californias version of what they think a Japanese car should look like lol, not very authentic at all
I agree with you.
No wonder new 5LS looks so bad.
However, was the LC Coupe styled in California too???
Because the LC looks good.
Personally I think the designs of Lexus have been getting worse over time, very mediocre and similar to the cheaper Japanese brands (Honda, acura , Nissan etc...)
The LC is the first breath of fresh air weve had in many years.
I used to wonder why its getting so bad but seeing now that the pride of Japan auto is being designed by a company from California its starting to make some sense.
Californias version of what they think a Japanese car should look like lol, not very authentic at all
This "company from California" is owned by Toyota and is Toyota's design studio. Many automakers (foreign and domestic) also have design studios in California.
SoCal has always been a gigantic marketplace for cars and many (perhaps most) design features have come from studios located there. I lived in LA for most of my life and the auto held a major position in the culture. I would not have dreamed of driving a dirty car over the weekend. But now here in Oregon, who cares?
I'd love to see Lexus return to their conservative, refined days. That would personally suit me best. But I clearly understand they are going for more sales numbers, and that can only be done hitting up the younger market. No hard feelings, as I still love my 2008 IS.
It's spectacular that Toyota and Lexus are trying to not make boring looking cars, hopefully this follows as far as how they handle and the horsepower/torque they have.
I think the Lexus gigantic grille should go Mr. Cartabiano
ok that was worth the click to read the slide show. thanks.
interesting quote:
"I respect something that's new but not perfect, rather than something that's beautiful but nondescript," Cartabiano says. "I'd rather be challenged than made comfortable. Polarizing is OK."
Bitkahuna, I think he can say all he likes about polarizing is ok, but in the end it "may" be a mistaken strategy to not be yourself, but pretend to be someone else by declaring "no more boring cars", and for Calty to style some ridiculous designs, with inconsistency.
For example, I sat in the C-HR below, and the front seats are fine, but the rear seats are very very claustrophobic due to the design of the trailing apex of the rear windows.
However, ironically I find the C-HR one of their better looking cars, such that the C-HR has form, but not function.
I wonder if the LF-FC prototype for 5LS was actually styled by Calty too? Because I thought that LF-FC looked nice.
If LC and LF-FC did come from Calty as well, then that means that Calty is presently producing an "inconsistent" mix of styling, with ups and downs...
Well, look at the way the guy dresses. Middle aged guy trying too hard to dress like a 20-something hipster, lol. Keeps mentioning art galleries and avant garde. Reminds me a lot of those Paris fashion catwalks where the models wear ridiculous stuff that is meant to provoke a reaction. But on a serious note, the LC was styled at Calty and it looks pretty darn good, spindle and all.
Ian, you need to produce more "consistent" results like RX and LC etc.
Throwing in Prius, Mirai, a claustrophobic rear cabin C-HR & an Infiniti-like 5LS rear is not good.
Really? Some of the things I am reading here are just downright laughable and plain inaccurate. Cartiabiano is far from the "chief" designer at both Toyota and Lexus. He's a senior designer for Toyota alright, but let's not get things twisted. Tokuo Fukuichi has that position of sweeping influence over TMC design for all of its brands. Who is responsible for this write-up? The Curated Content here often rings dubious or poorly researched. Please improve that.
Second, after hearing so many times that people assume the LF-FC and LS were products of Calty (plus a few other models), you should be reminded that the LF-FC was designed at Toyota's Tokyo Design Laboratory, between the period of August 2014 and December 2014 (completed overall early September 2015). I don't know how many times I can mention that, as Calty had no input.
As for the LS, Calty in fact has NEVER won the internal design competition for any LS development program in 1986, 1992, 1997, 2003, 2010, or 2014. The only credit to the LS that Calty gets, is somewhat helping to cultivate the design direction for the original LS 400 back in 1984-1985 via research support. Ironically, only the design HQ in Aichi, Japan has been given this honour every single LS redesign, for rather both cynical and pragmatic reasons.
The newest LS was an Aichi HQ design completed well over 3 years ago and was not from ED2 in France nor Calty. Neither were the IS, RC, nor NX designs works of Calty. Only the AL10 RX (5 years ago) and L10 GS (8 years ago) were.
Even though the LC originated as the LF-LC Concept, the production model was hijacked and given to the HQ design centre in Aichi by 2013 (as usual). LFA was also designed at Aichi HQ (until summer 2008). Calty Newport mostly does advanced design work or initial design proposals, since Calty's Ann Arbor branch handles serious production design work (mostly for North America).
Having met Ian once at a past autoshow, I do have respect for him as a designer and in succeeding from making his way up towards the top at Calty, but flagrantly dismiss the idea he calls the shots for both brands. His boss Kevin Hunter would barely be that very person at Calty overall.
The Camry and C-HR are not the whole Toyota lineup, so I find it disingenuous, that this article suggests he's the very individual to thank. There's nothing more I dislike than incomplete information or misinformation that confuses/fools the recipient. California hardly dictates things, compared to Japan HQ, which is where both Toyoda and Fukuichi work. To blame California for ruining Lexus design is absurd, when they merely have a supporting role.
I agree with you.
No wonder new 5LS looks so bad.
However, was the LC Coupe styled in California too???
Because the LC looks good.
Hey Pete, wanted to let you know that the 2018 LS (like all the others before it) was designed at Toyota's global HQ in Aichi over a 2 year period, that ended in 2014. Similar for LF-FC. Calty has no connection to either, but I have seen in other threads and elsewhere, people wrongly assume otherwise based on little evidence.
This is a rejected design proposal for the outgoing LS from 2003 and another below from 1997 for the LS 430
It seems rather unfair that global design entries from their other studios for every generation of LS are always rejected, in favour of domestically submitted design proposals. Many alternate proposals from Calty for the 3rd and 4th LS generations were somewhat inferior, so I can understand that and the need for close proximity to HQ engineers.
If we're entertaining comments to Toyota in terms of current designs...
Edit: No... I'll keep this short. I am frustrated by current Toyota visual design but it's not a complicated reason why.
Each vehicle in the Toyota (and Lexus) lineup needs and should have its own individual identity. Look at how good the 1990-2000 Toyota AND Lexus lineups separately looked. Each vehicle had its own subtly unique front end shape and overall appearance. The cars were allowed to be individuals within the same families.
Today every Toyota front bumper, regardless of how different the models are from each other, has to look similar. Same for Lexus.
It is as if the thinking posits that consumers couldn't be bothered to look at a brand badge after they have been allowed to appreciate a vehicle model for its own unique identity.
Or it is like going to see a movie trailer and you realize you're hearing a ripoff of the same Hans Zimmer droning and thrumming score that always hits epic crescendos. You begin to feel like most of the major movies you are watching are all the same movie. That gets boring unless something really unique is on the screen.
And this is what making every automaker's front grill design on every model they sell look almost exactly the same does for me. Who needs a brand badge when all you have to do is look at the front grill whether you're looking at a low slung sports car or a big SUV?
Toyota used to embrace more individual designs and a few of those designs don't even need to be changed much (Supra MKIV, original Lexus IS, 94-98 Celica) as has been successful for Porsche (911) and Ford (2015+ Mustang) and I would argue the beautiful looks of the current Toyota 86 coupe.
If I had to summarize it would be the impression that Toyota needs to allow their various models to be more individual again.
Maybe the C-HR is on the right track after all... maybe... but it's severe lack of a serious performance driveline does not line up with its looks and that is not a successful formula. When I look at one I expect to find an AWD 250hp turbo 6-speed manual rear LSD CUV with some Celica GT-Four inspired rally heritage.
Instead it is just an aggressively styled, anemic 140hp non-turbo, FWD only, CVT only factory poser vehicle that isn't fun or engaging to drive. It turns me off completely and makes me dislike the styling whereas if the vehicle's performance actually lived up to what its looks suggest or at least came very close I would be more willing to forgive and maybe even embrace the looks.
Before anyone says it, the 86 only having 200hp is surely lacking in the outright performance department but I respect that car because it's still a lot of engaging fun to drive and gets the rest of its budget performance fun formula 100% right being a balanced RWD chassis with a manual gearbox and an LSD. The Supra will exist to satisfy outright horsepower performance with turbochargers. With four doors it is a missed opportunity that the 2018 Camry doesn't have a V6 AWD trim level.
The current Toyota Tacoma and 4Runner lines actually don't look bad at all though. A bit chunky but overall they're allowed to deviate just enough to look good. Although their front bumpers could be slightly less chunky. I can't say the same for the currently ugly Land Cruiser 200.
I do feel that in general with many vehicles there is an intrinsic link between a reasonable expectation based on styling that the vehicle in question has lives up or comes close to what it actually delivers based on what is under the hood, what wheels are driven and sometimes also by what shifter is in the center console. While extremely rare to encounter, when a vehicle looks more conservative in its styling but happens to over-deliver based on visual assumptions in terms of performance it is never a disliked combination.
Also, to reiterate, Toyota got most of its 90's and early 2000's lineup right because it allowed each of its vehicles to have more individual character and expression.
The C-HR does this in a way, love or hate its looks, but it is STILL saddled with a front grill that mostly resembles the same grill on every other Toyota. That isn't the best way to give each model an individual distinctive identity.
10-16-17, 11:44 AM
A Sit Down With the Chief Designer at Lexus / Toyota
