SC300 2000 Modest Performance Boost
08-13-17, 02:19 PM
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SC300 2000 Modest Performance Boost
My SC300 is pretty much factory components. It has a flawless exterior, without even a door ding.
Top end performance is great. As fast as I have been able to take it (about 120) it was still climbing effortlessly.
I would like a bit more response coming off the line. What can I do without spending a bunch of money and turning it into a project car?
I am only modestly fluent in auto knowledge in general.
Top end performance is great. As fast as I have been able to take it (about 120) it was still climbing effortlessly.
I would like a bit more response coming off the line. What can I do without spending a bunch of money and turning it into a project car?
I am only modestly fluent in auto knowledge in general.
08-13-17, 10:36 PM
#2
Honestly? It is difficult not to turn these into project cars.
However if you leave the engine alone and simply maintain it well, I would do the following assuming you have no issues with emissions in your area:
--Go with 17" wheels front and rear and swap in 1995-2000 LS400 front brake calipers. If you're pushing the car I would upgrade those front brakes.
--W58 manual 5-speed swap. This will require extra wiring DIY's outlined by Cartmill that will eliminate CELs due to missing shift solenoids. There is also some programmable box from Russia that is supposed to give the 98-00 ECU the shift signals it wants to see.
--Keep the 4.272:1 final drive ratio. Consider a limited slip differential in the future. Even on an NA SC300 they make a difference when it comes to handling.
--Update your suspension to something like a Gixxer_Drew setup of KW V3 coilovers if funds allow.
--Supra 22mm rear sway bar swap with either OEM MKIV Supra subframe mounts or aftermarket subframe mounts
--For sound/preference that is a subtle change from stock, install a Manzo/M2 catback exhaust.
--Better summer compound tires with good rain traction
--Optional: some bucket seat upgrade that has good side bolstering such as Supra MKIV front seats
...
Apart from these changes there is not much else I would suggest you do short of building an NA-T engine or swapping in a 1JZGTE or 2JZGTE. Unfortunately there really is not much more the 2JZ-GE has to give in non-turbo form. The use of the W58 5-speed will make the car just a bit faster (and a lot more fun and engaging to drive) but the modest speed increase will be nothing like converting to a turbo setup or full GTE engine. 2JZ-GE's are already highly tuned in stock form.
That said, a manual non-turbo SC300 with a 4.272:1 final drive is still a lot of fun to drive and will move off the line well. 1st gear is short and you shift from 1st to 2nd before you hit 60mph. Top end is very good but your revs are 4000rpm at 90mph in 5th gear with the W58 and 4.272 rear end. 90-100mph is effortless in that setup.
Still, to make clear, changing to a manual transmission in no way adds more power, just the way in which it is delivered and there are slightly less driveline losses compared to the automatic transmission. For a dramatic increase in power a turbo engine would still be needed.
However if you leave the engine alone and simply maintain it well, I would do the following assuming you have no issues with emissions in your area:
--Go with 17" wheels front and rear and swap in 1995-2000 LS400 front brake calipers. If you're pushing the car I would upgrade those front brakes.
--W58 manual 5-speed swap. This will require extra wiring DIY's outlined by Cartmill that will eliminate CELs due to missing shift solenoids. There is also some programmable box from Russia that is supposed to give the 98-00 ECU the shift signals it wants to see.
--Keep the 4.272:1 final drive ratio. Consider a limited slip differential in the future. Even on an NA SC300 they make a difference when it comes to handling.
--Update your suspension to something like a Gixxer_Drew setup of KW V3 coilovers if funds allow.
--Supra 22mm rear sway bar swap with either OEM MKIV Supra subframe mounts or aftermarket subframe mounts
--For sound/preference that is a subtle change from stock, install a Manzo/M2 catback exhaust.
--Better summer compound tires with good rain traction
--Optional: some bucket seat upgrade that has good side bolstering such as Supra MKIV front seats
...
Apart from these changes there is not much else I would suggest you do short of building an NA-T engine or swapping in a 1JZGTE or 2JZGTE. Unfortunately there really is not much more the 2JZ-GE has to give in non-turbo form. The use of the W58 5-speed will make the car just a bit faster (and a lot more fun and engaging to drive) but the modest speed increase will be nothing like converting to a turbo setup or full GTE engine. 2JZ-GE's are already highly tuned in stock form.
That said, a manual non-turbo SC300 with a 4.272:1 final drive is still a lot of fun to drive and will move off the line well. 1st gear is short and you shift from 1st to 2nd before you hit 60mph. Top end is very good but your revs are 4000rpm at 90mph in 5th gear with the W58 and 4.272 rear end. 90-100mph is effortless in that setup.
Still, to make clear, changing to a manual transmission in no way adds more power, just the way in which it is delivered and there are slightly less driveline losses compared to the automatic transmission. For a dramatic increase in power a turbo engine would still be needed.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 08-14-17 at 04:00 AM. Reason: Clarified info
08-17-17, 08:54 PM
#3
Kahn pretty much nailed it.
Doing the 5speed swap would be the biggest change for you. It would feel like a whole new car. With VVTI acceleration from a stop is push you into your seat fun.
I also agree with the 17in wheels. But I want to add, get a forged alloy wheel. The wheel will be physically bigger than the 16s you have now (Assuming they are the original wheels) but they will physically weigh less than the stock wheels.
Since this is rotating mass you've reduced, the side effect is the car feels lighter on acceleration.
Changing the seats out to something like the MKIV Supra seats has two advantages. One is they weigh half as much as our stock SC seats yet have most of the same power options. The second is, they are more of a performance oriented bucket seat, so you feel more snug in the seat. This usually inspires more confidence while driving the car.
Other things I would add is perform the BFI mod. That's pretty much opening up the front of the airbox by cutting it so the engine can get at more air when it needs it.
When was the last time you did a full tuneup? Replaced the spark plug wires(you're VVTI so instead of 6 you have 3)? Running Denso Iridium spark plugs tends to smooth out idle and acceleration while at the same time adding about 1 mpg.
Doing the 5speed swap would be the biggest change for you. It would feel like a whole new car. With VVTI acceleration from a stop is push you into your seat fun.
I also agree with the 17in wheels. But I want to add, get a forged alloy wheel. The wheel will be physically bigger than the 16s you have now (Assuming they are the original wheels) but they will physically weigh less than the stock wheels.
Since this is rotating mass you've reduced, the side effect is the car feels lighter on acceleration.
Changing the seats out to something like the MKIV Supra seats has two advantages. One is they weigh half as much as our stock SC seats yet have most of the same power options. The second is, they are more of a performance oriented bucket seat, so you feel more snug in the seat. This usually inspires more confidence while driving the car.
Other things I would add is perform the BFI mod. That's pretty much opening up the front of the airbox by cutting it so the engine can get at more air when it needs it.
When was the last time you did a full tuneup? Replaced the spark plug wires(you're VVTI so instead of 6 you have 3)? Running Denso Iridium spark plugs tends to smooth out idle and acceleration while at the same time adding about 1 mpg.
08-18-17, 02:51 AM
#5
^^ Welcome to the forum, Tony!
Really, elaborations on what we've talked about above are covered in many, many threads in our SC300/400 sub-forum that get into the nitty-gritty details. Adding more power to a JZ engine does require a turbo setup. Doing all kinds of work around the 2JZ-GE engine to maximize the 225hp that is available can go a long way... and nearly all of those modifications translate to an SC better set up to handle a turbo engine later on.
If you've got some questions about your SC300, feel free to fire away.
To play devil's advocate there is one exceptional MKIV NA that I know of that is fully tuned NA, E85, full custom ITB's, aftermarket ECU and hours of dyno tuning, etc... but your jaw would drop at how much it cost the owner in fully custom work and tuning to get barely 300whp when a 600whp++ turbo 2JZ could be build for a fraction of that cost. To be sure it's an impressive and unique car but it's basically tuned for full racetrack use and not really street use.
Now you might think to yourself that if one guy proved it could be done then someone else can also! Well theoretically yes... but as soon as you price shop a JDM 1JZGTE or 2JZGTE engine set or all you need for a good NA-T built AND all the supporting parts and modifications needed you will still lose all interest in as the cost of doing what that guy did FAR exceeded a very nice GTE swap or NA-T build.
This guy (LRG_Soup on Supraforums) did it to do something different and make a track toy. It was in no way achievable with simple off the shelf bolt-ons like a Xerd header or a BFI mod while still using your stock ECU. That doesn't really do much of anything. For his insane MKIV the whole fuel system was gutted and reworked for ITB's. The header he used was an expensive custom one off tubular design. The cylinder head had a lot of work done and his cams were (to my knowledge) custom. Doing similar NA reworking to... say... an LS1, LS2, K20A, K24, Ford DOHC 4.6, Ford Coyote or even an older Ford 5.0/302 will actually give you real power gains for considerably less money than LRG_Soup spent. And yes, I think think what he did was very impressive and awesome but for what it took him to get there and completely, truly max out the NA version of this engine in E85-only or 100+ octane race gas only tune I would not want to attempt to replicate it.
I bring up this extremely exceptional case because while this guy and maybe two or three other people in the world proved it could be done with money and resources being unlimited, when we talk about bang for the buck in the JZ engine world it is NOT worth it to chase higher naturally aspirated power with a JZ engine. That is an all-or-nothing affair and Toyota never designed the JZ series for naturally aspirated race tuning.
But they did design the entire JZ engine architecture for higher power with turbocharging. Once a turbocharger is added to the equation everything suddenly changes and horsepower increases are much easier and cheaper to achieve.
Even still... doing other chassis, braking and driveline modifications around your stock GE engine (and maintaining it) and sorting out a manual transmission swap will still make the car feel significantly different than before it was in fully stock form. Yes, a turbo JZ engine is always going to blow the doors off a non-turbo JZ engine but with the rest of your car sorted a stock 2JZ-GE powered car can still be a lot of fun if engaging driving is what you like.
Really, elaborations on what we've talked about above are covered in many, many threads in our SC300/400 sub-forum that get into the nitty-gritty details. Adding more power to a JZ engine does require a turbo setup. Doing all kinds of work around the 2JZ-GE engine to maximize the 225hp that is available can go a long way... and nearly all of those modifications translate to an SC better set up to handle a turbo engine later on.
If you've got some questions about your SC300, feel free to fire away.
To play devil's advocate there is one exceptional MKIV NA that I know of that is fully tuned NA, E85, full custom ITB's, aftermarket ECU and hours of dyno tuning, etc... but your jaw would drop at how much it cost the owner in fully custom work and tuning to get barely 300whp when a 600whp++ turbo 2JZ could be build for a fraction of that cost. To be sure it's an impressive and unique car but it's basically tuned for full racetrack use and not really street use.
Now you might think to yourself that if one guy proved it could be done then someone else can also! Well theoretically yes... but as soon as you price shop a JDM 1JZGTE or 2JZGTE engine set or all you need for a good NA-T built AND all the supporting parts and modifications needed you will still lose all interest in as the cost of doing what that guy did FAR exceeded a very nice GTE swap or NA-T build.
This guy (LRG_Soup on Supraforums) did it to do something different and make a track toy. It was in no way achievable with simple off the shelf bolt-ons like a Xerd header or a BFI mod while still using your stock ECU. That doesn't really do much of anything. For his insane MKIV the whole fuel system was gutted and reworked for ITB's. The header he used was an expensive custom one off tubular design. The cylinder head had a lot of work done and his cams were (to my knowledge) custom. Doing similar NA reworking to... say... an LS1, LS2, K20A, K24, Ford DOHC 4.6, Ford Coyote or even an older Ford 5.0/302 will actually give you real power gains for considerably less money than LRG_Soup spent. And yes, I think think what he did was very impressive and awesome but for what it took him to get there and completely, truly max out the NA version of this engine in E85-only or 100+ octane race gas only tune I would not want to attempt to replicate it.
I bring up this extremely exceptional case because while this guy and maybe two or three other people in the world proved it could be done with money and resources being unlimited, when we talk about bang for the buck in the JZ engine world it is NOT worth it to chase higher naturally aspirated power with a JZ engine. That is an all-or-nothing affair and Toyota never designed the JZ series for naturally aspirated race tuning.
But they did design the entire JZ engine architecture for higher power with turbocharging. Once a turbocharger is added to the equation everything suddenly changes and horsepower increases are much easier and cheaper to achieve.
Even still... doing other chassis, braking and driveline modifications around your stock GE engine (and maintaining it) and sorting out a manual transmission swap will still make the car feel significantly different than before it was in fully stock form. Yes, a turbo JZ engine is always going to blow the doors off a non-turbo JZ engine but with the rest of your car sorted a stock 2JZ-GE powered car can still be a lot of fun if engaging driving is what you like.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 08-18-17 at 02:59 AM.
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