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Where are my Kia and Genesis haters now? "Reputable" or not, Genesis will rightly use this as more ammunition to market directly to Lexus customers.
IQS is a "satisfaction" survey, not a "dependability" survey. Its a measure of how happy overall a customer is with their new car. Like it or not, this decline is representative of the fact that Lexus owners are not as pleased with their new cars as they were some years ago.
First off, Lexus has not declined, PPH vehicles only went up two points from 96 to 98 compared to last year.
Second, Genesis only has two models. The Lexus GS is the highest ranked mid-sized luxury car and that segment is the majority of Genesis (aspirations).
Btw, with the advent of HUD head up displays, one could argue that it is NO longer necessary to have difficult to control joysticks and mechanical jog dials, and that Lexus should use high mounted easy to use direct touch screens as used in Toyota's domestic luxury Crowns.
First off, Lexus has not declined, PPH vehicles only went up two points from 96 to 98 compared to last year.
Second, Genesis only has two models. The Lexus GS is the highest ranked mid-sized luxury car and that segment is the majority of Genesis (aspirations).
Over the years, many people have rightfully criticized Lexus' infotainment system, but few have been detailed and clear, such that TMC haven't really been able to substantially improve the system.
The original 2003-10 BMW 5 Series used a 3-way jog dial that could select by dialling clockwise or counter clockwise, with a push to enter.
If I'm not wong, later BMW added another four ways via up/down and left/right to give a total 7-way jog dial?
Or was it always 7-ways from the very beginning?
Nevermind history, it is 7-ways now.
_
I still own the e39 2003 M5. That car is from the mid late 90s build technology. The e60 2004+ was bleh. To be frank, most BMW drivers don't have high expectation on BMW'S NAV system. They were ruthlessly denounced for a clunky system back then. Anyway, the 4RX is a totally redesigned car in 2016, I had higher expectation from the Japanese which have a tech culture. Perhaps they lost their edge. A better comparison is the totallly redesign Volvo XC90 and S class bens with great touchscreen interface.
I still own the e39 2003 M5. That car is from the mid late 90s build technology. The e60 2004+ was bleh. To be frank, most BMW drivers don't have high expectation on BMW'S NAV system. They were ruthlessly denounced for a clunky system back then. Anyway, the 4RX is a totally redesigned car in 2016, I had higher expectation from the Japanese which have a tech culture. Perhaps they lost their edge. A better comparison is the totallly redesign Volvo XC90 and S class bens with great touchscreen interface.
Yes, there is a move back into touch screens.
Eg Tesla Model S.
Toyota announced some years ago that they were moving back into touch screens.
However I was surprized to see that the new Lexus LC coupe & 5LS sedans still persisting with Lexus' 5-way joystick control.
I still own the e39 2003 M5. That car is from the mid late 90s build technology. The e60 2004+ was bleh. To be frank, most BMW drivers don't have high expectation on BMW'S NAV system. They were ruthlessly denounced for a clunky system back then. Anyway, the 4RX is a totally redesigned car in 2016, I had higher expectation from the Japanese which have a tech culture. Perhaps they lost their edge. A better comparison is the totallly redesign Volvo XC90 and S class bens with great touchscreen interface.
FYI the S Class Benz does not have a touch screen interface.
I still own the e39 2003 M5. That car is from the mid late 90s build technology. The e60 2004+ was bleh. To be frank, most BMW drivers don't have high expectation on BMW'S NAV system. They were ruthlessly denounced for a clunky system back then. Anyway, the 4RX is a totally redesigned car in 2016, I had higher expectation from the Japanese which have a tech culture. Perhaps they lost their edge. A better comparison is the totallly redesign Volvo XC90 and S class bens with great touchscreen interface.
"Good" and "bad" infotainment interfaces are subjective, especially when it comes to trying to compare touchscreen and remote-controlled (non-touchscreen) interfaces. So I read the Initial Quality Survey with some trepidation, since it does not measure reliability or durability (which you cannot measure after such a short period of time of 90 days), but rather measures problems that are subjective rather than truly objective.
I read a a comparison of infotainment systems that rated the Volvo's touchscreen terrible, and from my own short experience with it, I would agree -- it is not intuitive at all. The salesman called it a head-up system but it was most definitely a head-down system, because you definitely have to look down at it to know what you are touching and trying to control.
I have basically the same nav system in my Highlander and my GS. The Highlander is a touch screen and the GS is remote touch. Having it a touch screen in the Highlander does nothing to make it better or more competitive with other systems. Having both, I'd take remote touch over the touchscreen any day.
If we have a large device like a keyboard, or a control panel, where plenty of space is available, then I suspect the mechanical control interface will be around for a long long time.
One of the main advantages of mechanical controls over a touchscreen, is the ability to use the mechanical controls blindfolded, for example, a mechanical QWERTY keyboard can be used blindfolded, whereas a QWERTY touchscreen could never be used blindfolded!
However, for "compact" controllers where space is in short supply like cell phones, then I suspect the touch screen will win, while mechanical buttons will go the way of Blackberry.
For those who like mechanical remote control of infotainment systems, how would you like if Lexus adopted BMW's 7-way jog dial; it's just like Lexus' 5-way joystick, but it can also be dialled clockwise and counter-clockwise.
The second beauty of the dial is that the faster we rotate the dial, the faster the cursor moves.
BMW has the Back button located beautifully positioned on the bottom left.
I wish there was an Enter button on the bottom right - this is only logical.
The Media, Radio, Menu, Tel and Nav buttons positioned above the jog dial are superb.
Lexus' idea of having an Up/Down rocker switch is great too, and can be easily incorporated into such designs.
BMW's 7-way jog dial with Clockwise and Counter-Clockwise rotation can also be easily adapted for use with Lexus' two dimensional LCD display, by programming the dial rotations to move the Lexus cursor from Left to right, and Top to Bottom in a "Z-Like" fashion similar to the diagram below.
Then, Lexus' infotainment system would be so much easier to control.
Like BMW, Lexus could then limit their four-way Left/Right and Up/Down joystick to only move one icon at a time for much more precise control.
Lexus' 5-way joystick isn't just a simple 4-way directional joystick, that moves the cursor only one icon space at a time.
Lexus' 5-way joystick is really a "miniature" screen, where movement on the joystick's miniature screen is amplified by the big LCD screen. Something like 1" of joystick horizontal left/right movement, is translated to something like 8" of horizontal left/right movement on the LCD screen!!!
And therein lies the problems.
Lexus' 5-way joystick also has electronically variable detents depending on the number of icons along the x and y axis!
The problem with this current design is that the greater the number of icons along the x or y horizontal/vertical axis, the smaller and finer the movement of the joystick to move the cursor by only one icon space.
Thus, Lexus' 5 way joystick is a bit of a disaster when despite the intention of moving only one icon and despite gentle touch - can sometimes have the cursor inadvertently moving two icons - this is most prevalent on screens with many icons in a line, because the more icons in a line, the finer the movement of the Lexus joystick must be, to only move one icon space at a time.
Because Lexus' LCD screen is wider than it is high, most of the accidental skipping movements of the joystick occur in the horizontal plane, esp the 8-icon horizontal Menu Screen.
Mercedes' infotainment controls are very similar to BMW's, and adds a touch pad, however, lately it has become too complicated with too many buttons packed tightly together in a small confined space, surrounding the periphery of the jog dial in an "n-like" fashion, and this may take the driver's eyes off the road...
The Benz Up/Down Rolling Wheel to the right of the main jog dial is a great ergonomic idea! We don't need to look at it - we can feel it.
What's more, unlike Lexus' simple Up/Down Rocker, the Benz Up/Down Roller's speed is controlled by the user; the faster we roll, the faster the Cursor scrolls up and down.
However, too many buttons closely packed together in a small confined space is not a good idea.
Lexus has a separate Economy/Normal/Sports/Sports+ Mode dial that is more ergonomic than Benz' multiple small buttons below.
Lexus' hi-fi On/Off, Mode and Volume buttons and rockers on the left side of the steering wheel, with Telephone controls on the right side of the steering wheel - is also more ergonomic than Benz's tightly packed buttons below.
BMW has the right mix.
Lexus must learn from BMW's 7-way jog dial with Clockwise and Counter-Clockwise rotations to move multiple icons from Left to Right, and Top to Bottom in a zig zag direction across the two-dimensional LCD screen.
For many decades, Toyotas/Lexiis have generally been the most ergonomic and the most simple to use.
However of late, Lexus' 5-way joystick needs some real attention.
I only intend to move one icon to the right by very gently pushing, yet Lexus' 5-way joystick will often inadvertently move two icons to the right.
Beyond these primary basic input controls, and secondary output software display, we can then address tertiary features like Android Auto & Apple CarPlay...
I have basically the same nav system in my Highlander and my GS. The Highlander is a touch screen and the GS is remote touch. Having it a touch screen in the Highlander does nothing to make it better or more competitive with other systems. Having both, I'd take remote touch over the touchscreen any day.
Interesting. Are you just commenting on the navigation or the whole system?
I have basically the same nav system in my Highlander and my GS. The Highlander is a touch screen and the GS is remote touch. Having it a touch screen in the Highlander does nothing to make it better or more competitive with other systems. Having both, I'd take remote touch over the touchscreen any day.
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
Interesting. Are you just commenting on the navigation or the whole system?
Despite the fact that I have the Remote Touch with navigation system in my ES and my parents have only the touchscreen basic infotainment system in their Corolla, it is obvious that they are very similar systems, both derived from a common core. Despite the fact that one is a remote-controlled system and the other is a touchscreen system, they are the same system at the core.
Despite the fact that I have the Remote Touch with navigation system in my ES and my parents have only the touchscreen basic infotainment system in their Corolla, it is obvious that they are very similar systems, both derived from a common core. Despite the fact that one is a remote-controlled system and the other is a touchscreen system, they are the same system at the core.
cost 'management' at its finest... take a system good enough for a corolla and tack on a controller so lexus can say it plays like the german brands... whatever happened to lexus doing something unique and better... my old 2gs nav and other controls was so far ahead of the crap in the german equivalents at the time. My neighbor and i used to laugh at the worthless *cd* based nav system in his bmw 540i
06-23-17, 09:12 PM
whatever happened to lexus doing something unique and better... my old 2gs nav and other controls was so far ahead of the crap in the german equivalents at the time. My neighbor and i used to laugh at the worthless *cd* based nav system in his bmw 540i 
