Ricoo

alfa romeo giulia quadrifoglio

dseag2

I'm surprised the '17 A4 wasn't listed. It actually seems a natural replacement in this category because it has bested the Bimmer and Benz in certain ways. It is a great car in all respects (tech, interior, driving, handling). The 0-60 times are around 5.2 - 5.4 secs, so it more than competitive in the category.

I know the exterior could be considered boring, but not with the right packages. If you are ever in the market you owe it to yourself to test drive one. It is the best sedan since my GS 350 F Sport. Hope you don't mind that I'm mentioning this in the IS forum, but I have owned multiple Lexuses as well. I'm "brand agnostic" as long as the car is good.

E46CT

^ Yeah if you read the first few posts, you'll see where I forgot to mention the A4. The poll can't be edited. For some reason the car didn't even pop up in my head. I do like the A4 though.

My guess it would be around the same # or slightly less than the Mercedes

webra

I second the Alfa. A real M alternative, not just sometning that looks fast.

budman1

My vote would be for another Lexus. If I were to part with our IS 350, I would be tempted to perhaps move up to a GS.

I've owned a 335i and currently have an S5, so obviously enjoy German engineering, but tired of reliability issues.

EZZ

I keep hearing that Audi is as reliable as a Lexus. How was your experience?

Lexmeup

lexus on reliability alone. Strikes a good balance of features and has less trade-offs.

E46CT

Lexus has been traditionally reliable because they've been recycling old Camry and Landcruiser engines in their fleet for a long long LONG time. Japanese makes are traditionally conservative. If it were up to them, they'd use the same old 4 cylinder camry engines in all their cars forever. But with Mercedes, BMW, Audi nipping at their heels eating away at their market with better performing cars w/ more tech, Lexus is being forced to also use more tech, more intricate performance bushing-based suspensions, turbochargers, etc. So expect reliability to drop some in the coming years as Lexus is now being forced to play the big boy game in the car world. They can't rely on their traditional 3L and 3.5L engines as they did in the past. More power, more gears, more rubber in the suspension. etc. All that stuff is expensive and lots of demand placed on it. They'll be doing what BMW, Mercedes, Audi has done for years. Use complex stuff.

The higher something performs, the more stuff needs to be maintained and replaced.

We're already seeing this a bit with the IS200t. Reports of boost problems, solenoids being replaced.

BMWs been at the turbo game w/ modern cars since 2007. Theyve got a decades head start on Toyota.

MasonGrey

iTrader: (2)

I agree with some aspects and disagree with others. You are correct that Lexus is behind; even more so now that the new Infiniti VR30DDTT is out. I wouldn't say they're that far behind though. Toyota's 2JZ-GTE shows that they can make good turbo engines (which confuses me because the 8AR is rather lukewarm) with respectable performance while maintaining solid reliability. Subjectively, Lexus has been the Japanese Benz where it's a bubble so I would say they're going well enough as luxury cars; technology features (or gimmicks if you're more cynical) are a way to improve your interior, but not the only way. That being said, the infotainment is usable, but not the best.

In the current landscape, if the Germans didn't have the reliability issues, Lexus would be dead; however, I think by the next iteration of the IS, Lexus will have sorted most, if not all, the current complaints. Perhaps I'm too hopeful.

dseag2

That's the kicker. Audi's reliability is second to Lexus right now, but only us gearheads that follow such things are aware of that. The average Lexus customer will probably keep purchasing new Lexus models because their previous cars have been rock-solid. Public perception always lags reality, and it will take years for the average consumer to think of Audi in the same category as Lexus when it comes to reliability. Until that happens, Lexus needs to continue developing new engines and technology to stay competitive.

dseag2

Even though I have an Audi A4 (and just traded in an S5) I would be the first to recommend the GS. I owned a '13 GS F Sport and it was a great all-around car. I didn't consider it this time around because I wanted something smaller. I will say, it is hard to replicate the "raw" feel and the speed of the S5 in many sedans. It has an excitement all it's own!

budman1

To be fair, the S5 is a 2010, but only has 30K miles. I've had it a little over a year and its been in the shop for stalling/CEL, oil leak and a intermittent hesitation no one can figure out. All in all, I really like the car, just tired of visiting the service dept so often!

Glad to hear about the GS! I am tempted to test drive one and have an all Lexus garage!

EXE46

Mostly likely a GSF or RCF next when my lease is up in 3 yrs. I prefer an NA engine, plus since the next gen V8's will be turbo, it makes sense to acquire one of these treasured motors. My first turbo is my current IS200T and while the car is fine, i detest the lag and the sound.

dseag2

Sorry to hear about all your reliability issues. I owned a '10 S5 Cab, an '11 S5 Cab and a '15 S5 Coupe and was never at the dealer for anything more than standard maintenance. I hope you get the issues straightened out. It really is an amazing car to drive.

MWIS350

Lexus for life RCF or ISF I will not downgrade to other car