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Gerry, those are concise words of wisdom I very seriously take to heart. Thank you!
I am not happy about where this is going but I completely agree. If it was meant to be then it would not have been this insanely difficult for almost a year now.
I'm getting estimates and figuring out my realistic options. Will see.
I feel your pain as I am just in the first year of collecting all the parts needed and have to admit it is quite daunting and annoying at times. I've thought of just dumping the project more than a few times but watching the progress a few of the builds here are making has kept me on track. Admittedly it is not my daily driver, haven't driven it in 6 months, but having a lawn ornament isn't very enjoyable either.
I agree with Gerry, if it's meant to be it will happen, if not then no real loss as life is great regardless. Here's to hoping you are able to continue the project and fulfill your goals.
Look at this as an opportunity. I think now would be a good time to install that TT head gasket Shouldn't hurt to drive on lower compression until you complete the swap, just won't have as much power down low. You would've had to change out the head gasket anyway, so no harm no foul
Craig,
If there's anything I can do help on the parts side, please let me know. I'd like to help out any way I can as you have been a major help for me over the last several months.
Hey all. I needed to take a break for a few days before responding to anything related to my thread. It was stressful when I first got this news but I think things will be fine now. It will be a sting to repair the car right on the heels of the emissions repairs but things will be fine. The worst that will happen is I just sit on my swap ever longer.
The irony is that I had no prior indication of any internal coolant leak. If I had then I would not have gone to all the trouble to repair the car for smog testing. I would have moved ahead with my swap early and registered Non-Operational. That would have negated the need to pass smog until the swap were running.
I am open to using the swap parts early depending on how involved the repair needs to be but it will be much more likely that I will, as Gerry wisely suggests, just repair the engine as-is for now.
I am waiting to hear back from Blackstone regarding the last sample I sent in from the day I got the bad news. I immediately had the oil changed and took a sample only 348 miles since the last oil change that morning and parked the car for the time being (no driving since the morning of the 9th of June).
Here is the last report which alerted me to this problem. I got the call on the morning of the 9th from one of their lab techs before it was even available to download. I will post the newest report for comparison as soon as I get it.
Up until this point they had nothing concerning to say about my engine other than that very slightly elevated bearing wear was detected but was deemed to have stabilized.
Now if these results combined with the new results in a few days suggest that my engine's bearings are not healthy then I am going to be looking at more work obviously. That or locating another used 2JZ-GE to swap electronics and some manifold parts over to.
...
Huge thanks to you Gerry and scblackout, LoveSC's and jimmymac30 for all your support!
Originally Posted by scblackout
I feel your pain as I am just in the first year of collecting all the parts needed and have to admit it is quite daunting and annoying at times. I've thought of just dumping the project more than a few times but watching the progress a few of the builds here are making has kept me on track. Admittedly it is not my daily driver, haven't driven it in 6 months, but having a lawn ornament isn't very enjoyable either.
I agree with Gerry, if it's meant to be it will happen, if not then no real loss as life is great regardless. Here's to hoping you are able to continue the project and fulfill your goals.
I also agree and thank you! I am trying to be practical about how much needs to be spent for a normal repair versus how similar money might be spent converting the core of the engine to GTE spec. I do not think I will do this but I am just leaving the option open depending on what the true repair estimate turns out to be.
Originally Posted by LoveSCs
Look at this as an opportunity. I think now would be a good time to install that TT head gasket Shouldn't hurt to drive on lower compression until you complete the swap, just won't have as much power down low. You would've had to change out the head gasket anyway, so no harm no foul
I agree in theory but remember that I am not just installing a TT head gasket on my NA head. I haven't even bought the head gasket yet The swap calls for me to have my USDM 2JZGTE cylinder head rebuilt to stock and install that on the engine. I originally planned to use my stock NA block for the conversion with a 2.0mm or 2.4mm Cometic head gasket to lower the compression with the GTE head. The 1.3mm OEM TT head gasket isn't quite enough when using the GE 10.0:1 compression pistons.
And add to that, you have to use the GTE intake manifold, a working turbo on the exhaust side, the GTE engine harness, GTE ECU and you also have to have the oil pan's return drain tapped and swap out the early style GE oil pump for a 1996+ GE oil pump which has the crankshaft trigger sensor (since this is what replaces the distributor signal from the GE cylinder head).
It's a case of going all the way if it is done... or not
I have all of these parts minus the head gasket and some minor odds and ends but once you switch heads there is no turning back And all the major components I have still need a little work (turbos need rebuilding, wiring harness needs conversion, GTE ECU needs to be sent in to Driftmotion or Tanin for service, cylinder head is complete but needs to be rebuilt/reassembled, etc.).
It can and will all be done but I just wasn't quite prepared to pull the trigger at this moment on the swap. It will very, very likely wait longer but we will see
Originally Posted by jimmymac30
Craig,
If there's anything I can do help on the parts side, please let me know. I'd like to help out any way I can as you have been a major help for me over the last several months.
It will all work out.
Jim, thank you VERY much! I will take you up on that offer. I have sent you a small list of the remaining OEM parts I have left to pick up from Toyota. I have all the VSVs already but in some cases I have only one working example and have just wanted to pick up a backup in case anything became discontinued. The rest is fairly simple stuff that wasn't prioritized over rarer or more crucial parts. A TT compatible alternator for instance
... swap out the early style GE oil pump for a 1996+ GE oil pump which has the crankshaft trigger sensor (since this is what replaces the distributor signal from the GE cylinder head).
Thank you for bringing this up. I spent quite some time yesterday looking for information on the 96+ GE oil pump as I vaguely remembered reading a thread saying that the 96 oil pump was different.
There was another post on sf about modified oil pumps for higher hp builds and I had it on my 'to purchase' list. Now I just have to find out if they make a modified pump with the crank sensor, or if I am just overdoing it by even thinking about that modified pump as goal is under 800hp.
I'm so thankful that you mentioned the crank sensor as I would have once again purchased the wrong part if it doesn't have the sensor. Once again you guys are the best!
SCBlackout - The price of the GE and GTE oil pumps are same . Just get the GTE oil pump which has the hole for the crank sensor if you decide to install a crank sensor. It won't hurt to get a modified oil pump but for your power goal ... no it is not a must .
Craig - your car had already pass the smog test . Just keep using it with frequent oil changes. Get another GE short block for your swap , they are cheap . Work on your swap engine while you are using your car. I wouldn't worry too much about spending more money on that engine if it was me. It will get you a long way still with regular / frequent oil changes. Then when your engine swap is ready .. do it . In that way you are not without a vehicle for a long time.
Kahn, a little coolant never hurt a 2JZ unless it was run hot and into the ground, they are just being proactive.
do the oil changes every 1k until you get it fixed and I wouldn't worry about strapping a turbo to it.
honestly to just do the headgasket and put it back with stock headbolts temporarily only takes about 1-2 days to do slowly, and you can use one of those online eristic sets and they are not expensive at all... perfectly fine for a stock motor, some even run boost through them. the stock head does not need a rebuild, unless it overheats the way toyota uses the shim over bucket they basically do not wear unless you skip oil changes forever, I would not hesitate to take it off and check with a straight edge and slap it back on, worst case you take a little off and use a gte headgasket in the time being.
You don't even have to take the timing belt off if all your stuff like waterpump is good etc.. cause you will be changing those later anyways.
you just pull the tensioner from below, slide the belt off the cam gears and use a strong clip and clip the belt tight to itself against the upper timing cover, then you can pull the head.
When you get the head back on just reverse, unclip belt slide it back on and pop the tensioner in and double check its still in time... it saves a bunch of time.
If you decide to move up the TT head swap, there is a lot to cover for sure, but you can hit the major stuff and get all the little stuff buttoned up by the next time you have to go for smog. Heck if you have a couch beer and pizza I might even come down and give you a hand.
The oil pumps all fit the same but the GE and GTE versions put out different pressures.
What I learned is to keep a GE pump on a GE block and a GTE pump on a GTE block. Oil squirters on the GTE's require more pressure. On GE's with no oil squirters they don't require the same pressure. A GE pump on a GTE block would not provide enough pressure... while a GTE pump on a GE block can supposedly provide too much pressure (since there are no piston oil squirters).
Gerry and Ali, you both have firsthand experience with this many times over so please feel free to correct me if this is not accurate information.
Gerry - I agree and that is what I'd like to do. I just want to make sure that my original engine won't blow on me even if I use the car moderately and don't rev it much and change the oil every 500 or so miles.
I'm game to find a good GE engine block but figuring out where it can be set up on a stand to assemble is the tough part. My most reliable such location is back in Florida. Doable if I can get the parts back there bit by bit but not very practical from here. The car would need it to get back there too once it's ready to install.
But looking at things plainly however I do it building another block makes the most sense.
Ali - The car nearly overheated only once when my original radiator was beginning to leak. This was in early 2013. I *immediately* poured water into the system and monitored it carefully. Temperature stabilized very quickly. Nothing further came of it and not very long after that I was swapping in the TT Koyo radiator that is in the car now. It's never had any such issue since that one time. I did have to sort out coolant leaks at the HCV valve area early last year but the engine was not near overheated then either.
In recent months well before I noticed my rough running and smog troubles there were no issues with running hot.
...
Now since I still do need to sort out the last bits of my GTE swap parts before I can use them I could do what you suggest Ali: just get the head gasket taken care of without more than checking the head and block for warpage.
I'd have to have my shop do this given the work involved and my inability to have carte blanche in my current parking garage space. I can't leave things unfinished overnight unfortunately. My apartment manager is fine with what I do but he's not the only one in charge of the building I live in who steps through randomly.
Now IF I were to need to have a little bit taken off the GE head... you're saying there is no concern with getting particulate metal shavings into the ports that could affect the oiling system? FSR Motorsports was recommending not a head rebuild but a head disassembly and reassembly. Not sure how that definition differs from what we think of as a "rebuild".
Without an overheating problem suggesting that the head has become warped I would be happy to just pay to get the gasket replaced. My timing belt was going to be due in about 9,000 miles anyway and even if you say it doesn't need to be messed with just to get the head off and on again as long as they're in there I don't mind it being done. And the water pump since I have a new Aisin GE water pump set aside for a rainy day anyway (last pump was changed at 189k by me).
...
Anyway, I will still wait to turn on the car until I get the next Blackstone analysis report in just a few days. I can wait for that at the very least.
I'm glad you guys feel that they are just being very proactive and conservative with their recommendations. I'd rather have that as a service from them than not.
If I can limp the car along with moderate use for a while or band aid the engine with the cheapest head gasket change possible... I'd be fine spending that money in the near term.
Long term I think the writing is on the wall to just use another engine block for the swap.
And Gerry, given the list I've sent you how far off from having most of what I need do you think I am at this point? Pretty close, maybe?
The oil pumps all fit the same but the GE and GTE versions put out different pressures.
What I learned is to keep a GE pump on a GE block and a GTE pump on a GTE block. Oil squirters on the GTE's require more pressure. On GE's with no oil squirters they don't require the same pressure. A GE pump on a GTE block would not provide enough pressure... while a GTE pump on a GE block can supposedly provide too much pressure (since there are no piston oil squirters).
True they may have different oil pressures but it wouldn't hurt having the pressure of the GTE on a GE so you have better circulation of oil or oil is pushed better in places where it should be like the bearings. You might say , won't it be blowing cam seals , FMS or cause problems? The solution to that is having a proper crank case ventilation .
Think about this , the big boys in the 2jz world will use a GE block with a modified oil pump just to have better oil pressure / circulations or if they use the GTE block they will delete the oil squitters and still use a modified pump. A little better oil pressure is desirable than a mediocre oil pressure most especially if you are going to boost the engine.
True they may have different oil pressures but it wouldn't hurt having the pressure of the GTE on a GE so you have better circulation of oil or oil is pushed better in places where it should be like the bearings. You might say , won't it be blowing cam seals , FMS or cause problems? The solution to that is having a proper crank case ventilation .
Think about this , the big boys in the 2jz world will use a GE block with a modified oil pump just to have better oil pressure / circulations or if they use the GTE block they will delete the oil squitters and still use a modified pump. A little better oil pressure is desirable than a mediocre oil pressure most especially if you are going to boost the engine.
^^ Thank you Gerry! It's the front main seal blowout that I have heard of so much. In this use case of a GTE pump or modified GTE pump on a GE block what do you consider proper crankcase ventilation? Does this mean that the oil pan requires an additional tap for ventilation? And does it render a factory stock GE or GTE PCV system impossible to use safely in this scenario?
Additionally, do you use a modified GTE oil pump on either of your 3.4L strokers?
Craig - Ali had said it , as long as that engine is not over heating don't worry too much about that signs of little coolant in your oil. There could be a lot of possible reasons why a little coolant is there. It doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad head gasket... otherwise that engine will over heat if indeed it is a bad head gasket. Change the oil at short intervals if it worries you. If it is a head gasket going bad , it will surely manifest itself , you will see the engine temp going higher than normal then you know, the head gasket might need to be replaced if the other parts of the cooling system like water pump, radiator , etc. are in good shape.
The list you have sent me is very thorough ... you are very close and almost there. In building or doing a swap , there will always be the unforseen. Even after so much planning and thinking ... you will find out that you are still lacking or still need some other small parts that can nickel and dime you and delay the project. That is the reason I suggested that you get a GE short block that can be had for less than $500. In that way , you can take your time building your full engine and swap it when ready so you still have a car you can make use of.
I know you said that space is the problem. When you are ready to assemble things, how expensive is it to rent a very small storage where you can work and store the engine ? I know of some people here in GA doing that.
All my oil pumps are modified pumps , not only for the 3.4 engines but also for the 3.0 engines.. bought them from our SF sponsors.
No you don't have to tap the oil pan for ventilation. What we do is put bigger holes and fittings on the valve covers so the pressure can come out . The bigger the better on those valve cover holes / ventilation fittings. If you can fit -12an better... but -10an is what most use. Some will just direct the hoses to a catch can and the catch can has a filter to ventilate the pressure . Others with a good catch can , that can separate oil from air , has a fitting for a hose that can be connected from catch can to the pre - turbo pipe for scanvenging purposes. The vacuum created by the compressor of the turbo helps pull the pressure out of the valve covers .... which I believe helps a lot in crankcase ventilation. Check the original TT setup... the passenger valve cover has a hose going to the front turbo piping.
06-09-16, 12:36 PM
Shouldn't hurt to drive on lower compression until you complete the swap, just won't have as much power down low. You would've had to change out the head gasket anyway, so no harm no foul
The swap calls for me to have my USDM 2JZGTE cylinder head rebuilt to stock and install that on the engine. I originally planned to use my stock NA block for the conversion with a 2.0mm or 2.4mm Cometic head gasket to lower the compression with the GTE head. The 1.3mm OEM TT head gasket isn't quite enough when using the GE 10.0:1 compression pistons.
