Volkswagen brand too weak for high-end Phaeton, Audi U.S. chief says
Makes you wonder who they have in the marketing dept. Long before it was out the same thing was being said so after tooling up and making the car, only to discover after a year....
I suspect that if this were a Japanese project, they'd throw more advertising and refine the problematic issues to change the buyers view of the car. Companies like Toyota have the resources to float a project and evaluate...I dunno if the German companies hold the same view or do they just kill it?
I suspect that if this were a Japanese project, they'd throw more advertising and refine the problematic issues to change the buyers view of the car. Companies like Toyota have the resources to float a project and evaluate...I dunno if the German companies hold the same view or do they just kill it?
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,521
Likes: 261
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Originally posted by grimm01
http://www.autonews.com has an article saying Axel Mees got fired for those statements he made about VW & Phaeton. I guess the VW folks are still sore about the Phaeton failure.
http://www.autonews.com has an article saying Axel Mees got fired for those statements he made about VW & Phaeton. I guess the VW folks are still sore about the Phaeton failure.
Originally posted by SexySC
I can't believe their original goal is as high as 5,000 per year
I can't believe their original goal is as high as 5,000 per year
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
From: Maryland
I believe if you look at the Q45, Jag, A8 VW etc.. any car that's not the "Big Three", you'll see it's a tough nut to crack.
"big three" = LS430/S-class/7-series
The big three have probably 80% of the market with 15K-20K share each. All the other imports have closer to 1000-3000. I'm leaving out Caddy because they are really a different market segment.
So VW think it could waltz into the US and take 5000 units?? So who are these extra units going to come from? Whos sales are they going to steal?
I'm not a marketing guy, but if I look at what the Q45 has managed to do (or not do) and what the LS430 has done, and if you ask me what's more likely for a new car line I'd have to say, unless you have the best car in the world (and the VW is not) you'll be lucky to sell 1000-2000 units.
What I mean is you have to go out of your way no not buy a LS, 7 or S-class. People are more comfortable with the established cars. It's remarkable that the LS has been able to take on this segment and dominate it. That's a moon shot. I don't think we'll see another car come along and do that again.
That's why Acura has avoided this segment. They have looked over the numbers and know the big 3 will probably always be there and they don't want to become another minor player.
"big three" = LS430/S-class/7-series
The big three have probably 80% of the market with 15K-20K share each. All the other imports have closer to 1000-3000. I'm leaving out Caddy because they are really a different market segment.
So VW think it could waltz into the US and take 5000 units??
So who are these extra units going to come from? Whos sales are they going to steal? I'm not a marketing guy, but if I look at what the Q45 has managed to do (or not do) and what the LS430 has done, and if you ask me what's more likely for a new car line I'd have to say, unless you have the best car in the world (and the VW is not) you'll be lucky to sell 1000-2000 units.
What I mean is you have to go out of your way no not buy a LS, 7 or S-class. People are more comfortable with the established cars. It's remarkable that the LS has been able to take on this segment and dominate it. That's a moon shot. I don't think we'll see another car come along and do that again.
That's why Acura has avoided this segment. They have looked over the numbers and know the big 3 will probably always be there and they don't want to become another minor player.
Last edited by rai; Nov 18, 2004 at 11:18 AM.
Former Sponsor
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,001
Likes: 1
From: D2'sville
I have said it about 1.3million times on this board, the strategy behind the Phaeton was simply off from day one. The Toureg is about as upmarket as VW should take it, (since there is more perceived value in a SUV, thus easier to charge more). The Phaeton is in direct competition to the A8. And then to cover it up, VAG officials stated that the A8 was intended to combat BMW, while the Phaeton was to combat MB....yah sure....... 
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Posts: n/a
Again, before Fernidad Peirch left his post of CEO (and he did turn around things at VW) he wanted VW to go against Benz and Audi against BMW. He also hated Audi management for having such same look and what he thought were bland designs. Hence the big grill, headlight changes etc etc that he influenced.
The VW Phaeton was his baby. Clearly this was an ego car, not one to benefit VW.
Piech is not longer CEO but his iron hand is still felt.
The VW Phaeton was his baby. Clearly this was an ego car, not one to benefit VW.
Piech is not longer CEO but his iron hand is still felt.
Pole Position
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,222
Likes: 51
From: Michigan
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Again, before Fernidad Peirch left his post of CEO (and he did turn around things at VW) he wanted VW to go against Benz and Audi against BMW. He also hated Audi management for having such same look and what he thought were bland designs. Hence the big grill, headlight changes etc etc that he influenced.
The VW Phaeton was his baby. Clearly this was an ego car, not one to benefit VW.
Piech is not longer CEO but his iron hand is still felt.
Again, before Fernidad Peirch left his post of CEO (and he did turn around things at VW) he wanted VW to go against Benz and Audi against BMW. He also hated Audi management for having such same look and what he thought were bland designs. Hence the big grill, headlight changes etc etc that he influenced.
The VW Phaeton was his baby. Clearly this was an ego car, not one to benefit VW.
Piech is not longer CEO but his iron hand is still felt.
CEO
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 1
From: HKG
errrr... it is Piech ... and he definitely is NOT an IDIOT
His grandfather (mother's side) was Porsche and he owes a lot of Porsche shares.
He was behind the initial success of the Porsche racing cars.
He also basically brought Audi to the level of MB and BMW, and was the architect/projectleader behind the UrQuattro, the first Audi Quattro.
He is an expert engineer (Professor Dr. ... lol) ... and he pushed his engineers to the edge to deliver the Audi and he testdrove all Audi (and VW) cars himself before the models could be taken into production.
however, every genius has his/her weaknesses...
His grandfather (mother's side) was Porsche and he owes a lot of Porsche shares.
He was behind the initial success of the Porsche racing cars.
He also basically brought Audi to the level of MB and BMW, and was the architect/projectleader behind the UrQuattro, the first Audi Quattro.
He is an expert engineer (Professor Dr. ... lol) ... and he pushed his engineers to the edge to deliver the Audi and he testdrove all Audi (and VW) cars himself before the models could be taken into production.
however, every genius has his/her weaknesses...
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From: MD
Originally posted by rai
I believe if you look at the Q45, Jag, A8 VW etc.. any car that's not the "Big Three", you'll see it's a tough nut to crack.
"big three" = LS430/S-class/7-series
The big three have probably 80% of the market with 15K-20K share each. All the other imports have closer to 1000-3000. I'm leaving out Caddy because they are really a different market segment.
So VW think it could waltz into the US and take 5000 units?? So who are these extra units going to come from? Whos sales are they going to steal?
I'm not a marketing guy, but if I look at what the Q45 has managed to do (or not do) and what the LS430 has done, and if you ask me what's more likely for a new car line I'd have to say, unless you have the best car in the world (and the VW is not) you'll be lucky to sell 1000-2000 units.
What I mean is you have to go out of your way no not buy a LS, 7 or S-class. People are more comfortable with the established cars. It's remarkable that the LS has been able to take on this segment and dominate it. That's a moon shot. I don't think we'll see another car come along and do that again.
That's why Acura has avoided this segment. They have looked over the numbers and know the big 3 will probably always be there and they don't want to become another minor player.
I believe if you look at the Q45, Jag, A8 VW etc.. any car that's not the "Big Three", you'll see it's a tough nut to crack.
"big three" = LS430/S-class/7-series
The big three have probably 80% of the market with 15K-20K share each. All the other imports have closer to 1000-3000. I'm leaving out Caddy because they are really a different market segment.
So VW think it could waltz into the US and take 5000 units??
So who are these extra units going to come from? Whos sales are they going to steal? I'm not a marketing guy, but if I look at what the Q45 has managed to do (or not do) and what the LS430 has done, and if you ask me what's more likely for a new car line I'd have to say, unless you have the best car in the world (and the VW is not) you'll be lucky to sell 1000-2000 units.
What I mean is you have to go out of your way no not buy a LS, 7 or S-class. People are more comfortable with the established cars. It's remarkable that the LS has been able to take on this segment and dominate it. That's a moon shot. I don't think we'll see another car come along and do that again.
That's why Acura has avoided this segment. They have looked over the numbers and know the big 3 will probably always be there and they don't want to become another minor player.
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SecPole14
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Nov 23, 2004 03:21 PM
audi, audis, brand, dealer, end, ended, high, higher, phaeton, volkswagen, volkswagon, volkswagons, vw
