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Yes, Sony, Panasonic & Sharp really have fallen.
Honda is falling somewhat.
It will be interesting what becomes of Toyota.
Presently, TMC is doing fine.
I dont recall any Toyota product being called the Gold Standard of anything anymore. Everything is made cheap cheap cheap and that includes the Toyota Avalon, their supposed flagship, aside from the Land Cruiser.
Wow....Sharp, what a blast from the past, they were at one time on top of the game with Aquos. Panasonic? On top with VHS. No offense if it turns out nobody even knows what that acronym is for. Because if you asked around in an office today, I would say up to about 50% have never used a CD, although more than 50% of that group will say their parents have them.
Umm, are 50% of the people in your office under the age of 24 or so??? I still buy CD's, if I really like the band. Besides if you didn't have broadband internet in your house to download music(poor or lived in the middle of nowhere), CD's were what you listened to.
I dont recall any Toyota product being called the Gold Standard of anything anymore. Everything is made cheap cheap cheap and that includes the Toyota Avalon, their supposed flagship, aside from the Land Cruiser.
No, Toyota was never the gold standard, except for reliability, but they did do consistently well.
This Avalon in disguise actually looks okay compared to the forthcoming Toyota Crown/Lexus 5GS, and the all new 2017-22 Series Accords.
If you thought the 5LS was bad, wait till yo use the new Accord.
Honda is slipping.
Sony really slipping and struggling to fight back with mirrorless cameras.
Panasonic and Sharp are gone...
You directly contradict yourself by stating, "This isn't the 1990s," followed by a post stating, "...the improvements actually started in the late 90s and early 2000s." We both know that Hyundai/Kia cars from that era were still largely considered junk by the American public as well as actually being junk prior to Hyundai/Kia's vitalizarían efforts which have worked in their favor since Schreyer turned things around.
No. I respect your view, but disagree. The first sign I can remember seeing from the long line of 80s and 90s Kia/Hyundai junk was the 1997 Hyundai Tiburon, a relatively small sport-coupe that competed with the Toyota Celica (I did a thorough review and test-drive of a 1Gen Tiburon, but that was in the days before I was at CL). From that moment forth, a slow but steady improvement over time was evident in both Hyundai and Kia products. That, of course, eventually gave us the excellent Genesis line we see today.
However, what you stated is indeed part of the problem (I won't disagree with that part).....public perception of Hyundai and Kia, in the U.S., has remained a number of years behind their actual performance and competency. That's why Hyundais and Kias depreciate more than they deserve to, and don't get their full-credit in the used-car market.
disagreement is fine. people have differing opinions, some are closer to the truth than others.
anyhow, kia/hyundai aren't helping their reputation by trying to get rid of them using the same tactics that have helped them in the past. just watch this commercial that has been playing all summer --
disagreement is fine. people have differing opinions, some are closer to the truth than others.
anyhow, kia/hyundai aren't helping their reputation by trying to get rid of them using the same tactics that have helped them in the past. just watch this commercial that has been playing all summer -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnfi0colnuA
I agree that most auto commercials, in general (not just Hyundai or Kia) are in insult to one's intelligence. Only once in a great while, like the cleverly-done VW ads of the 1960s or the smooth-talker "Mr. Lexus" ads of the 1990s, do some truly good ones come along. But, in general, if auto ads accurately described the vehicles, there would be no need for reviews.
I agree that most auto commercials, in general (not just Hyundai or Kia) are in insult to one's intelligence. Only once in a great while, like the cleverly-done VW ads of the 1960s or the smooth-talker "Mr. Lexus" ads of the 1990s, do some truly good ones come along. But, in general, if auto ads accurately described the vehicles, there would be no need for reviews.
i was focused more on the lure to those who are in financially dire situations. it is not at all prudent to have kia (as it has a reputation of doing) prey on sub-prime borrowers by advertising 66 month loan terms and 5 months of no payment.
i was focused more on the lure to those who are in financially dire situations. it is not at all prudent to have kia (as it has a reputation of doing) prey on sub-prime borrowers by advertising 66 month loan terms and 5 months of no payment.
anyhow, back to the avalon.
Agreed. Car Chat threads have a way of getting off topic.
I'll looking forward to the new Avalon's debut. I especially want to see how it compares to its nearest rivals.....MKZ, Lacrosse, ES, Cadenza, and Impala.
Sony's flagship products are still unmatched. You don't buy Sony's entry or mid tier products cause you can find them cheaper elsewhere but high end stuff is still the benchmark. If you are willing shell out astronomical figures for it.
Toyota is definitely not Sony. They don't have bar rising flagships in any segment. Their lineup is designed with least emotion amongst all Japanese manufacturers together with likes of Subaru and Mitsubishi. And their interiors are stuck in time for like last 10 years. New CRV or HSH whatever coupe like SUV is the first thing in ages that has modern interior. Toyota Land Cruise Prado is a disgrace of design and quality inside for 50,000 Euros overseas.
Mazda owns Toyota in any design segment including interior quality.
Sony's flagship products are still unmatched. You don't buy Sony's entry or mid tier products cause you can find them cheaper elsewhere but high end stuff is still the benchmark. If you are willing shell out astronomical figures for it.
Toyota is definitely not Sony. They don't have bar rising flagships in any segment. Their lineup is designed with least emotion amongst all Japanese manufacturers together with likes of Subaru and Mitsubishi. And their interiors are stuck in time for like last 10 years. New CRV or HSH whatever coupe like SUV is the first thing in ages that has modern interior. Toyota Land Cruise Prado is a disgrace of design and quality inside for 50,000 Euros overseas.
Mazda owns Toyota in any design segment including interior quality.
Sony used to make good audio gear. Now they make cheap consumer stuff that's priced high just because of the brand.
Mazda definitely have the best interiors of all the Japanese makes but Toyota still win based on reliability. I agree about how squarish and crappy the GX/Prado interior is but it's a durable, hard-wearing design with good mechanicals. Just like you wouldn't put a leather dash on a Hilux (Benz thinks otherwise with their Navarra clone).
No, Toyota was never the gold standard, except for reliability, but they did do consistently well.
This Avalon in disguise actually looks okay compared to the forthcoming Toyota Crown/Lexus 5GS, and the all new 2017-22 Series Accords.
If you thought the 5LS was bad, wait till yo use the new Accord.
Honda is slipping.
Sony really slipping and struggling to fight back with mirrorless cameras.
Panasonic and Sharp are gone...
Honda and Toyota sales are very strong. Hyundai on the other hand was recently predicted to suffer the hardest in any downturn in auto sales.
Also I would never call Hyundai/Kia products class leading or benchmarks. They are average on a good day. Can't think of a single mainstream segment where I would willingly pick the Hyundai/Kia product as the best.
Mainstream sedans are a dual between the new Camry and Accord. Compact sedans are Mazda 3 and Civic. Compact CUVs and the CR-V and CX3 take the cake. In subcompact the Fit is king. Etc...
Honda and Toyota sales are very strong. Hyundai on the other hand was recently predicted to suffer the hardest in any downturn in auto sales.
Also I would never call Hyundai/Kia products class leading or benchmarks. They are average on a good day. Can't think of a single mainstream segment where I would willingly pick the Hyundai/Kia product as the best.
Mainstream sedans are a dual between the new Camry and Accord. Compact sedans are Mazda 3 and Civic. Compact CUVs and the CR-V and CX3 take the cake. In subcompact the Fit is king. Etc...
I'd argue the Kia Soul is king of the hatchbacks. The base model is really nice for the price, TONS of room, IMO it looks better than the Fit, has proven to be reliable, and just has a lot more refinement, it doesn't have that tin can feel like the Fit. If you want options, the Soul has you covered there too, optional 200hp turbo motor, something you can't get in a Fit. If you want something that's fun to drive, the Fiesta ST is a riot and 19-20k out the door.
Not saying I'd buy a Kia or Hyundia, but for just basic under $35,000 type of sedans, hatchbacks, and SUV's, they'd be at the top of my list along with Honda, Mazda, and Toyota.
Honda and Toyota sales are very strong. Hyundai on the other hand was recently predicted to suffer the hardest in any downturn in auto sales.
Also I would never call Hyundai/Kia products class leading or benchmarks. They are average on a good day. Can't think of a single mainstream segment where I would willingly pick the Hyundai/Kia product as the best.
Mainstream sedans are a dual between the new Camry and Accord. Compact sedans are Mazda 3 and Civic. Compact CUVs and the CR-V and CX3 take the cake. In subcompact the Fit is king. Etc...
Be careful.
Hyundai with 25% more horsepower is moving in leaps and bounds here, and their chassis is quite good too.
Arrogance, and the underdog Hyundai has you caught off guard!
Be careful.
Hyundai with 25% more horsepower is moving in leaps and bounds here, and their chassis is quite good too.
Arrogance, and the underdog Hyundai has you caught off guard!
07-20-17, 07:44 AM
Car Chat threads have a way of getting off topic. 
