Meodel, thanks again for the good advice. Lexus Div. was supposed to call me back and they didn't as usual, so I called and finally made contact with the person handling my case. He proceeded to tell me that my car had now been given the latest TSB reprogramming and no other fix was available. I asked him about a new tranny and he said no. I told him my ES350 trans still slipped between shifts. He said there was no other TSB available and that it was considered normal and there was nothing Lexus would do for me. So now we know the latest strategy, just claim this is normal and stonewall. In order to pursue lemon law in my state you need to hire an outside expert to evaluate the transmission and go to arbitration. You must prove this problem lowers the market value of the vehicle according to our MN law. This is obviously a corporate decision to stonewall and screw over the customer, figuring most will just go away. I suppose they are figuring the media will never print anything about this trans problem out of fear of losing advertising revenue. Toyota got too big and is acting like the american auto manufacturers now.

I will try your suggestions and see what can be done, but I don't expect much other than a prolonged struggle now that Lexus has shown their true colors. They really don't care aboutquality anymore and don't take car of their customers.

 

I was in your position too. My state laws are very similiar. And yet, once I got an Attorney, everything fell in place quickly. I suspect that lexus uses this as a stall tactic, but once an attorney is engaged they realize you are serious.

 

I'm about to buy (I think) a new '08, and these problems have me a bit spooked. I see many of the posts are a year old. Have these things largely been cleared up? I especially want quiet smooth driving.

By the way, I have price quotes that are 9% off the list price for the '08, which were gotten after going (all by email) to 4 different dealers for bids.

I have been driving a 1990 LS400, which has been very good, but I think could die any day, so I need a new car - I won't try to keep it forever this time.
Thanks,

 

If you have a good test drive and you are pleased with the vehicle, I would not hesitate. What you don't see in this thread, or the forum, is the postings of tens of thousands of ES 350 owners who are extremely satisfied. I have had my ES 350 since the day it came out and I am very satisfied. The only issue I have on mine is the excesssive wind noise, which may or may not have been solved with the new mirrors on the 08.

 

Right on the money. People with complaints are the ones more likely to show up on forums. Satisfied folks typically have no need to post. This gives the impression that all ES350's are bad, given the number of posts. In reality that number is likely very low, percentage wise. My ES350 runs very well is quiet and has none of the problems mentioned. The Lexus people have been very accomodating.

 

The transmission flare is a widespread problem. There have been numerious buybacks, numerous TSIBs issued, numerious transmissions replaced and still no fix. Ask your service manager, they will fill you in.

 

I am not sure I even know what Transmission flare is, let alone if my 350 has it. I susbscribe to Consumer Reports both magazine and web site. I noted on the website they mentioned the latest user surveys on the ES350 seem to bear out their assumption, based on the ES330, of a Much better than average reliablity. CR in their original evaluation of the ES350 commented on how quiet the car was at highway speeds. Yet you read the internet reviews and folks are screaming about wind noise. So go figure.

I guess only time will tell for sure.

 

BINGO!!! There are many owners out there that are living with this and not knowing it. This has been debated on this forum for many months. The issue is much worse than reported, but there are many owners out there that don't even know they have the problem.

Now don't get me wrong, your car may be fine. But, there are many out there that are unaware of the issue and living with it everyday.

I personally have driven 5 loaner cars and my own (total of 6 ES350s) all with 2006 build dates and all 6 flared.

 

Interesting, I have noticed that I can feel the transmission upshifting shortly after driving off, when the engine is cold. After warm up I don't notice it. I don't see this as a problem, as my last car, an 03 Caddy CTS did pretty much the same thing. GM dealer told me it wasn't unusual for the transmission to shift more noticeably when cold. Is this the problem? Or is "flare" something different. There is no unusual noise and it doesn't up and down shift, stumble or hesitate during acceleration. It's not near as fun to drive as the CTS, which had much more of "sporty" feel to it. In northern Illinois, however, the front wheel drive 350 is superior to the CTS during the winter months.

I noticed the thread calls it "transmission flare" are we talking about "shift flare" definition- shift flare is when the rpm's raise when the transmission begins to shift into the next higher gear, and then come down to the normal level for the next gear- I have never noticed that with my ES350.

 

Yes, the feeling is as if you were driving a manual transmission car, and you depressed the clutch at the same time you were accelerating, therefore causing a slight slip (rev up in neutral and feeling a slight jolt due to lack of forward momentum). It usually happens between 3rd and 4th gear when cold, during the first run of the day.

Hope this helps

 

I'm sure that most Es onwers have no clue what a tranny flare is. That doesnt excuse the fact that it does flare. Should Lexus not acknowledge it and offer a solution. Once you are educated to the problem you will notice it every single time it happens and you cant help but wonder what long term problems it is causing.

 

I can name 5 people in my family who do not even know how a transmission operates once in "D". They just turn the key and go.

 

TSB from Toyota on Camry 6 speed Transmission same as ES350

Toyota just released a new TSB (TC007-07) for the infamous U660E transmission to correct the flare (slipping) problem. This is, of course, applicable only to the V6 Camry (and Lexus ES350).

The TSB calls for reflashing the transmission computer with new firmware to fix the problem. It also states that if the new firmware doesn't do the trick, the transaxle needs to be replaced (of course, that was in the older TSBs, and didn't solve my problem nor that of numerous other posters).

My conclusion is that they identified two problems with the transmission: one mechanical and one related to programming. The mechanical one was identified months back when they released the valve body replacement TSB and the subsequent R/R transaxle TSB. The firmware update is what's new this time.

What's interesting is that the list of flares the TSB is supposed to fix involves more than just the 3-4 shift flare that's so obvious. Other shift flares that I see mentioned less on discussion boards (with the exception of Edmunds, which has a number of complaints about these) were listed. Also, the TSB says the flares are most noticeable after a cold soak, implying they can occur when the car is warmed up (something many of us already knew from experience).

* 3-4 upshift during first 10 minutes of operation
* 2nd - 3rd upshift
* 4th - 5th upshift
* 5th - 4th downshift when accelerating from coast or decelerating between 30 - 40 mph

 

Flare getting worst, every startup today resulted in a flare, is cooler weather or age causing this problem to be increasing? Any comments appreciated.

 

ES350 Drops in CU reliability ratings:

When the ES350 first came out it was very highly rated by Consumer Reports, it's predicted reliability, based on past similar Lexus models was "much better than average". Now, based on the actual responses of ES350 owners, the rating has slipped to only "average". Problem areas seem to be the Transmission, Body Integrity...squeaks and rattles. Wind noise. Voice activation and audio systems.

Even more alarming the 2007 Camry XLE 6 cyc, which uses the same 6 speed transmission and engine received a "worse than average" predicted reliability rating. Unheard of for a Camry. Most of the problems with the Camry were centered around the transmission and squeaks rattles noises etc.

It will be interesting to see if the problems are fixed in the 2008 models.