Roof stalling
10-12-14, 02:30 PM
#1
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Roof stalling
In an earlier thread, I talked about my roof stalling at the end of an opening or a closing operation. I just returned from a 260 mile round trip to the Lexus dealer to address this problem and get some other maintenance done..
To recap the problem, the roof appears to complete the opening or closing operation but won't finish it by turning off the red light on the switch. The switch then won't respond to either open or close. The roof stalls. It does this about 1 in every 10 or 12 open/close cycles.
Of course, if you drive the car with the red light still lit, you're treated to a chime when you go over about 5 MPH. Also, your trunk is locked.
I repeatedly re-try the switch of course, but without success. I eventually restart the car. Either the switch recovers or restarting does the trick, because so far I've been able to get the switch to work again. I would assume the stall will eventually stop being intermittent.
So, I talked with the Lexus service tech and he said he is very familiar with the SC roof. After hearing the symptoms, he quickly diagnosed a failing proximity switch. He was confident they could diagnose the problem.
So, I was due for the timing belt replacement and decided I'd have Lexus address both issues.
As I suspected, they need to catch the roof stalling to diagnose it. And guess what: They could not get the roof to stall. When the tech called to say my car was ready, I was disappointed my roof could not be fixed. The tech really did not know much about the proximity switches, like how many are in the roof. When I asked, he said replacing them all would be expensive and they did not believe one switch could be identified as the culprit from the description of symptoms.
So, here I am back 130 miles from the dealer with a tricky roof.
I am thinking I will find out whether any local mechanic (Toyota or an independent) can find and fix the bad switch when it does fail.
Fortunately for the rest of you, the tech says this is not a common problem.
I am aware of the manual operations to raise the roof, but really hope I don't have to go there!
To recap the problem, the roof appears to complete the opening or closing operation but won't finish it by turning off the red light on the switch. The switch then won't respond to either open or close. The roof stalls. It does this about 1 in every 10 or 12 open/close cycles.
Of course, if you drive the car with the red light still lit, you're treated to a chime when you go over about 5 MPH. Also, your trunk is locked.
I repeatedly re-try the switch of course, but without success. I eventually restart the car. Either the switch recovers or restarting does the trick, because so far I've been able to get the switch to work again. I would assume the stall will eventually stop being intermittent.
So, I talked with the Lexus service tech and he said he is very familiar with the SC roof. After hearing the symptoms, he quickly diagnosed a failing proximity switch. He was confident they could diagnose the problem.
So, I was due for the timing belt replacement and decided I'd have Lexus address both issues.
As I suspected, they need to catch the roof stalling to diagnose it. And guess what: They could not get the roof to stall. When the tech called to say my car was ready, I was disappointed my roof could not be fixed. The tech really did not know much about the proximity switches, like how many are in the roof. When I asked, he said replacing them all would be expensive and they did not believe one switch could be identified as the culprit from the description of symptoms.
So, here I am back 130 miles from the dealer with a tricky roof.
I am thinking I will find out whether any local mechanic (Toyota or an independent) can find and fix the bad switch when it does fail.
Fortunately for the rest of you, the tech says this is not a common problem.
I am aware of the manual operations to raise the roof, but really hope I don't have to go there!
Last edited by rlp1949; 10-12-14 at 02:34 PM.
10-13-14, 08:19 AM
#2
I definitely feel your pain. How frustrating to take the car so far and not get the problem resolved.
I will tell you one strategy that worked for me when I was in the same situation (intermittent top fail). I took the car to the dealer because I wanted the scan code. They took the car into the shop and it worked fine. They brought it back out and said that despite numerous attempts, they could not replicated the problem.
So I took the car, sat in the parking lot, and cycled the top numerous times until the problem occurred. I called them out to the parking lot and they plugged in the scan tool and then I had the code I wanted.
If you end up back there for additional service, before giving them the car, I'd cycle the top repeatedly until you can create the problem, then you can give them the car with the problem active.
I will tell you one strategy that worked for me when I was in the same situation (intermittent top fail). I took the car to the dealer because I wanted the scan code. They took the car into the shop and it worked fine. They brought it back out and said that despite numerous attempts, they could not replicated the problem.
So I took the car, sat in the parking lot, and cycled the top numerous times until the problem occurred. I called them out to the parking lot and they plugged in the scan tool and then I had the code I wanted.
If you end up back there for additional service, before giving them the car, I'd cycle the top repeatedly until you can create the problem, then you can give them the car with the problem active.
10-14-14, 09:22 AM
#3
To append what JohnnyCake said...
The "fail code" only stays in the car until the next complete cycle. So, to get the top failure code, you have to be AT the dealership WITH the problem occurring.
Also, it's one of the OEM-specific codes so, it's not something that a normal OBD-II reader at like AutoZone can read for you. It's got to be done by Lexus (or someone with the Lexus diagnostic tool).
The "fail code" only stays in the car until the next complete cycle. So, to get the top failure code, you have to be AT the dealership WITH the problem occurring.
Also, it's one of the OEM-specific codes so, it's not something that a normal OBD-II reader at like AutoZone can read for you. It's got to be done by Lexus (or someone with the Lexus diagnostic tool).
10-14-14, 01:56 PM
#4
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
I called our local Toyota dealership to learn their ability to help me. The service rep needed to refer my question to his manager. The manager called back and told me they do not repair convertible roofs; they outsource them to a Seattle area company. He gave me the contact info for the company. I asked if they can read a Lexus code if I drive it over the next time the roof stalls. He said they can read a Lexus code and they would do that for me.
I called the company the local Toyota dealer uses for convertibles. These guys have primarily a rag top repair and replacement business and do not have much knowledge of hardtop convertibles. This lead won't do me much good.
So, it's October in Washington State and the weather is turning quickly. I plan to keep cycling the roof but only when the weather will let me drive the car right over to the Toyota dealer.
I'm encouraged by Johnny Cake's reply. He succeeded with a similar problem. Maybe there's hope for me.
Habius, thanks for the clarification of the error code reading. I was hoping there is just one switch that controls the finish of the cycle and someone would point it out.
It's annoying when you're concerned about every pop top being the last one for the switch. How about a scenario that finds me in an awkward location - like away from shelter and it's starting to rain!!
I called the company the local Toyota dealer uses for convertibles. These guys have primarily a rag top repair and replacement business and do not have much knowledge of hardtop convertibles. This lead won't do me much good.
So, it's October in Washington State and the weather is turning quickly. I plan to keep cycling the roof but only when the weather will let me drive the car right over to the Toyota dealer.
I'm encouraged by Johnny Cake's reply. He succeeded with a similar problem. Maybe there's hope for me.
Habius, thanks for the clarification of the error code reading. I was hoping there is just one switch that controls the finish of the cycle and someone would point it out.
It's annoying when you're concerned about every pop top being the last one for the switch. How about a scenario that finds me in an awkward location - like away from shelter and it's starting to rain!!
10-15-14, 06:09 AM
#5
Habius, thanks for the clarification of the error code reading. I was hoping there is just one switch that controls the finish of the cycle and someone would point it out.
It's annoying when you're concerned about every pop top being the last one for the switch. How about a scenario that finds me in an awkward location - like away from shelter and it's starting to rain!!
It's annoying when you're concerned about every pop top being the last one for the switch. How about a scenario that finds me in an awkward location - like away from shelter and it's starting to rain!!
P&L for the repair was ~$1,000
10-15-14, 07:30 AM
#6
I recently had a top failure on my '03. The latch motor in the roof failed. And it failed while the top was lowered so, roof wouldn't go up (and a thunderstorm was approaching...and I only have a carport). I hauled azz out to my dealer and turned the car over to them. I was like "Take as long as you like, but get the car inside before it rains!"
P&L for the repair was ~$1,000
P&L for the repair was ~$1,000
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10-15-14, 07:59 PM
#9
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Yes. The manual describes one procedure. It takes two people and looks like something I'd prefer to avoid. Johnny Cake provided a service PDF that describes what may be an easier approach. I think I attached that PDF but I'm still getting used to the process for attachments on this website. Even this simpler approach makes me uneasy.
341948d1410610943-roof-doesn-t-retract-into-trunk-top-down-mistake-fix.pdf
341948d1410610943-roof-doesn-t-retract-into-trunk-top-down-mistake-fix.pdf
10-16-14, 02:53 PM
#10
Yes. The manual describes one procedure. It takes two people and looks like something I'd prefer to avoid. Johnny Cake provided a service PDF that describes what may be an easier approach. I think I attached that PDF but I'm still getting used to the process for attachments on this website. Even this simpler approach makes me uneasy.
Attachment 344611
Attachment 344611
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