e85???
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 909
Likes: 2
From: Florida
From what I've heard, you CANNOT use E85 fuel unless your vehicle's engine is cleared for it. Our SCs are NOT CLEARED FOR THEM. It could cause serious damage to your engine. I remember my local news running a segment on it before because people were buying the gas for their "regular" cars and it caused major engine problems. Vehicles that are cleared for such fuel are Chevrolet and GMC's "Flexfuel" technology whose engine systems are designed to sustain regular or E85 fuel.
Don't do it, you'll have problems....
Don't do it, you'll have problems....
Lead Lap
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 482
Likes: 2
From: California
I initially thought the answer was no too.
There's a mass of mixed information on the safety of using flex-fuel in normal-fuel cars. Some automakers have identified specific problems in some models and engines and have issued warnings. But very few. (See Lexus warning below.)
The two main concerns are:
1) Corrosion issues within the fuel system
2) Oxygen sensors becoming confused, affecting
a. MPG
b. Performance
Lexus to date has issued only this warning:
On January 16, 2009, Toyota filed a Defect Information Report (DIR) with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) regarding certain 2006 2007 GS 300/350, 2006 2008 IS 250/350 and 2007 2008 LS 460/460L vehicles. The involved vehicles are equipped with aluminum fuel delivery pipes (fuel rails). Lexus has determined that ethanol fuels with low moisture content will corrode the internal surface of the fuel rails. As this condition progresses the engine malfunction light (MIL) may illuminate. Over time, the corrosion will create a pinhole resulting in fuel leakage. SSC 9LA will be launched to replace the Fuel Delivery Pipes in the affected vehicles.
There are approximately 43,700 GS 300 (24,500 2WD, 19,200 AWD), 23,700 GS 350 (14,000 2WD, 9,700 AWD), 85,800 IS 250 (54,000 2WD, 31,800 AWD), 24,900 IS 350, and 36,400 LS 460 (25,500 LS 460, 10,900 LS 460L) vehicles involved in the U.S.
You can do your own research and make the call, but I wouldn't be afraid to give it a try in our cars. Just monitor mpg and performance changes, and if they're not to your liking, switch back.
Hey Lon, was your VW a '59 or a '61 - I'm confused.
There's a mass of mixed information on the safety of using flex-fuel in normal-fuel cars. Some automakers have identified specific problems in some models and engines and have issued warnings. But very few. (See Lexus warning below.)
The two main concerns are:
1) Corrosion issues within the fuel system
2) Oxygen sensors becoming confused, affecting
a. MPG
b. Performance
Lexus to date has issued only this warning:
On January 16, 2009, Toyota filed a Defect Information Report (DIR) with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) regarding certain 2006 2007 GS 300/350, 2006 2008 IS 250/350 and 2007 2008 LS 460/460L vehicles. The involved vehicles are equipped with aluminum fuel delivery pipes (fuel rails). Lexus has determined that ethanol fuels with low moisture content will corrode the internal surface of the fuel rails. As this condition progresses the engine malfunction light (MIL) may illuminate. Over time, the corrosion will create a pinhole resulting in fuel leakage. SSC 9LA will be launched to replace the Fuel Delivery Pipes in the affected vehicles.
There are approximately 43,700 GS 300 (24,500 2WD, 19,200 AWD), 23,700 GS 350 (14,000 2WD, 9,700 AWD), 85,800 IS 250 (54,000 2WD, 31,800 AWD), 24,900 IS 350, and 36,400 LS 460 (25,500 LS 460, 10,900 LS 460L) vehicles involved in the U.S.
You can do your own research and make the call, but I wouldn't be afraid to give it a try in our cars. Just monitor mpg and performance changes, and if they're not to your liking, switch back.
Hey Lon, was your VW a '59 or a '61 - I'm confused.
Pole Position
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,135
Likes: 277
From: CA - San Diego
Don't use it. Our cars have oxygen sensors that read the fuel air ratio. E85 or ethanol fuels will alter this ratio leading to all sorts of problems. Playa3uhh is correct our engines, and the software that runs them, are not designed to run on this type of fuel.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 909
Likes: 2
From: Florida
The reason almost every gas station has 10% ethanol is because 10% is not enough to destroy your engine. I guess theoretically over time, it would but for the near future almost every gasoline station carries ONLY 10% ethanol gasoline. What can we do....
Trending Topics
Rookie
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta and Miami Beach
What can we do? Here is a repost from a previous thread. E85 s is REALLY BAD for your car while E10 is only really bad!
"I was in general agreement with the observation that “Most ‘additives’ are about profits rather than performance” . . . . Until I read one of George Murphy’s regular columns (Murphy’s Law) in the March-April, 2010 issue of The Star (the Mercedes-Benz Club of America magazine). He started with a discussion of the adverse effects of Ethanol (E-10 gasoline) on older cars and all cars either driven relatively few miles per year (e.g., limited weekend use) or placed in storage (e.g., during the winter).
In addition to the usual precautions (e.g., keep the tank 95% full), Mr. Murphy recommends the use of a stabilizer/additive (e.g., Marine Formula STA-BIL Ethanol Treatment) at every fill-up, especially for those cars, but for all cars as well. He concludes “This will protect your car from ethanol-induced corrosion as well as keep the entire fuel system clean to avoid problems in the future.” Mr. Murphy is a director at large on the MBCA national board and appointed technical director of the club, and has been so for a number of years. I think he knows of what he speaks."
"I was in general agreement with the observation that “Most ‘additives’ are about profits rather than performance” . . . . Until I read one of George Murphy’s regular columns (Murphy’s Law) in the March-April, 2010 issue of The Star (the Mercedes-Benz Club of America magazine). He started with a discussion of the adverse effects of Ethanol (E-10 gasoline) on older cars and all cars either driven relatively few miles per year (e.g., limited weekend use) or placed in storage (e.g., during the winter).
In addition to the usual precautions (e.g., keep the tank 95% full), Mr. Murphy recommends the use of a stabilizer/additive (e.g., Marine Formula STA-BIL Ethanol Treatment) at every fill-up, especially for those cars, but for all cars as well. He concludes “This will protect your car from ethanol-induced corrosion as well as keep the entire fuel system clean to avoid problems in the future.” Mr. Murphy is a director at large on the MBCA national board and appointed technical director of the club, and has been so for a number of years. I think he knows of what he speaks."
Last edited by MadHungari; Sep 14, 2010 at 01:07 PM. Reason: typo
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Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
From: tx
I initially thought the answer was no too.
There's a mass of mixed information on the safety of using flex-fuel in normal-fuel cars. Some automakers have identified specific problems in some models and engines and have issued warnings. But very few. (See Lexus warning below.)
The two main concerns are:
1) Corrosion issues within the fuel system
2) Oxygen sensors becoming confused, affecting
a. MPG
b. Performance
Lexus to date has issued only this warning:
On January 16, 2009, Toyota filed a Defect Information Report (DIR) with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) regarding certain 2006 2007 GS 300/350, 2006 2008 IS 250/350 and 2007 2008 LS 460/460L vehicles. The involved vehicles are equipped with aluminum fuel delivery pipes (fuel rails). Lexus has determined that ethanol fuels with low moisture content will corrode the internal surface of the fuel rails. As this condition progresses the engine malfunction light (MIL) may illuminate. Over time, the corrosion will create a pinhole resulting in fuel leakage. SSC 9LA will be launched to replace the Fuel Delivery Pipes in the affected vehicles.
There are approximately 43,700 GS 300 (24,500 2WD, 19,200 AWD), 23,700 GS 350 (14,000 2WD, 9,700 AWD), 85,800 IS 250 (54,000 2WD, 31,800 AWD), 24,900 IS 350, and 36,400 LS 460 (25,500 LS 460, 10,900 LS 460L) vehicles involved in the U.S.
You can do your own research and make the call, but I wouldn't be afraid to give it a try in our cars. Just monitor mpg and performance changes, and if they're not to your liking, switch back.
Hey Lon, was your VW a '59 or a '61 - I'm confused.
There's a mass of mixed information on the safety of using flex-fuel in normal-fuel cars. Some automakers have identified specific problems in some models and engines and have issued warnings. But very few. (See Lexus warning below.)
The two main concerns are:
1) Corrosion issues within the fuel system
2) Oxygen sensors becoming confused, affecting
a. MPG
b. Performance
Lexus to date has issued only this warning:
On January 16, 2009, Toyota filed a Defect Information Report (DIR) with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) regarding certain 2006 2007 GS 300/350, 2006 2008 IS 250/350 and 2007 2008 LS 460/460L vehicles. The involved vehicles are equipped with aluminum fuel delivery pipes (fuel rails). Lexus has determined that ethanol fuels with low moisture content will corrode the internal surface of the fuel rails. As this condition progresses the engine malfunction light (MIL) may illuminate. Over time, the corrosion will create a pinhole resulting in fuel leakage. SSC 9LA will be launched to replace the Fuel Delivery Pipes in the affected vehicles.
There are approximately 43,700 GS 300 (24,500 2WD, 19,200 AWD), 23,700 GS 350 (14,000 2WD, 9,700 AWD), 85,800 IS 250 (54,000 2WD, 31,800 AWD), 24,900 IS 350, and 36,400 LS 460 (25,500 LS 460, 10,900 LS 460L) vehicles involved in the U.S.
You can do your own research and make the call, but I wouldn't be afraid to give it a try in our cars. Just monitor mpg and performance changes, and if they're not to your liking, switch back.
Hey Lon, was your VW a '59 or a '61 - I'm confused.
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
From: tx
What can we do? Here is a repost from a previous thread. E85 s is REALLY BAD for your car while E10 is only really bad!
"I was in general agreement with the observation that “Most ‘additives’ are about profits rather than performance” . . . . Until I read one of George Murphy’s regular columns (Murphy’s Law) in the March-April, 2010 issue of The Star (the Mercedes-Benz Club of America magazine). He started with a discussion of the adverse effects of Ethanol (E-10 gasoline) on older cars and all cars either driven relatively few miles per year (e.g., limited weekend use) or placed in storage (e.g., during the winter).
In addition to the usual precautions (e.g., keep the tank 95% full), Mr. Murphy recommends the use of a stabilizer/additive (e.g., Marine Formula STA-BIL Ethanol Treatment) at every fill-up, especially for those cars, but for all cars as well. He concludes “This will protect your car from ethanol-induced corrosion as well as keep the entire fuel system clean to avoid problems in the future.” Mr. Murphy is a director at large on the MBCA national board and appointed technical director of the club, and has been so for a number of years. I think he knows of what he speaks."
"I was in general agreement with the observation that “Most ‘additives’ are about profits rather than performance” . . . . Until I read one of George Murphy’s regular columns (Murphy’s Law) in the March-April, 2010 issue of The Star (the Mercedes-Benz Club of America magazine). He started with a discussion of the adverse effects of Ethanol (E-10 gasoline) on older cars and all cars either driven relatively few miles per year (e.g., limited weekend use) or placed in storage (e.g., during the winter).
In addition to the usual precautions (e.g., keep the tank 95% full), Mr. Murphy recommends the use of a stabilizer/additive (e.g., Marine Formula STA-BIL Ethanol Treatment) at every fill-up, especially for those cars, but for all cars as well. He concludes “This will protect your car from ethanol-induced corrosion as well as keep the entire fuel system clean to avoid problems in the future.” Mr. Murphy is a director at large on the MBCA national board and appointed technical director of the club, and has been so for a number of years. I think he knows of what he speaks."
question: does it work on e85 or just e10??? lf
Driver
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 188
Likes: 1
From: Virginia
I am a professional fisherman as well as a few other things.....but I run a 22 foot bass boat with a 225hp, 2 stroke motor. Marine Sta-bil is not the same as the regular red juice. It is specially designed to stop "Phase Separation" which is what happens with the corn fuel. Ethanol is a water magnet and if it is not turned over frequently (as in used), it will phase separate and when our 2 strokes inject water along with the oil, they go BOOM!!...think steam expansion instead of fuel!! A lot of products will claim to emulsify the water and allow it to pass with the fuel which may be fine with vehicles but on high performance 2 strokes, once it separates you have to drain the tank. Marine Sta-bil will prevent separation but not correct it once it happens. That is why it goes in every tank of fuel for my boat. Another problem with the corn fuel is that in our boats anyway, it will dissolve your fuel lines which then clog the fuel filters, so you have to have the proper lines from the tank to the motor. We do not have an all-metal delivery system. All problems intensify if your vehicle (or boat) sits for a prolonged period. Weekend or summer drivers and boats that are stored for the winter (in some areas). E-10 has been a fact of life for a long time and it pays to know how to deal with it. E-85 will never go in anything I own unless it has a "Flex-Fuel" emblem on it.
Driver
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 188
Likes: 1
From: Virginia
Since the Marine version of Sta-Bil is specially designed for E-10, I would use that, it will not hurt our 4 strokes. I also use Lucas fuel treatment with about every 3rd or 4th tank in the 430. Cleaning deposits and carbon is different than preventing phase separation. I also use Mercury Fuel Treatment and Stabilizer in the boat as well. Geeze, I feel like an additive junky now!!
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