Are SC prices going up?
07-21-18, 10:35 AM
#16
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Thread Starter
A bit off topic, but what's with all the Supra references? If you want a Supra, get a Supra. Call me odd, but I've NEVER associated this car with the Supra. Apples and oranges to me. If anything, I'd describe this car as a Japanese Jaguar — luxury, sporting touring car that won't break down every other mile. I consider the Supra to be more or less a Japanese Corvette.
07-21-18, 12:03 PM
#17
A bit off topic, but what's with all the Supra references? If you want a Supra, get a Supra. Call me odd, but I've NEVER associated this car with the Supra. Apples and oranges to me. If anything, I'd describe this car as a Japanese Jaguar — luxury, sporting touring car that won't break down every other mile. I consider the Supra to be more or less a Japanese Corvette.
Both the MKIV Supra, Lexus SC300/400 and Toyota Soarer (RHD SC) were made on the same assembly line in Japan.
The MKIV Supra itself was developed FROM the Toyota Soarer Z30 (aka first-gen Lexus SC) chassis and released after it. Soarer Z30 debuted in 1991, USA/Canada Lexus SC debuted in 1992 and the Supra MKIV debuted worldwide in 1993.
As such, over the years it has become a well known fact that what can be done to build up a Supra MKIV non-turbo can be done in exactly the same way to a much cheaper to obtain 92-00 SC300 (and 400 if you pull the engine). They are mechanically the same cars, only one goes for a premium while the other is an underdog. Both require the same amount of work to build up as performance machines (SC300 vs MKIV Supra Non-Turbo).
It’s not apples to oranges at all, just the reality of how the market values one or more chassis variants over another.
I agree with your feeling that this is like a Japanese Jaguar... although I’ve always thought of the 90’s Lexus RWD cars as Japanese Mercedes-Benzes. Even still that doesn’t quite describe them perfectly.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 07-21-18 at 12:08 PM.
07-21-18, 01:59 PM
#18
Intermediate
This is my take on this and was also talking to KingPhillip about it.
The SC/Soarer is a car that is first of many things, it was both a technical and aesthetic achievement. It provided a new wave of cars and car designs for the future, for one it showed that it's luxurious grand touring capabilities were on par with the Germans (Mercedes SL500, BMW 840i) but it was never recognized for by the car enthusiast community since it didn't have anything to associate with. In Japan, people were familiar with the body style of the Z10 and Z20, since the Z30 looks completely different than the two this caused many people in Japan not to like it however there were also people who on the other end of that too. In the U.S, Lexus was a new brand, with the debut of the LS400 it showed they are focused on Luxury and with the SC it was supposed to be that Lexus can also create a car that looks stylistic as well. Well that worked out very well for Lexus, since they sold a good amount of SCs in the U.S, I think about 80,000 cars. Even on track, the SC performed really well, heck last week I was reading an old article from popularMechanics that showed the SC excelled in every single test they provided when compared to the cars in it's segment. There is so much potential in this vehicle and one of the most popular Toyotas was born because of this car.
Now, are SC prices going up?
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Kind of. The market went really down a few years back, you could find a decent condition SC for less than $2,000 but eventually what happened was people started to notice that. Many got on the "poor man's Supra" wagon (btw I hate that term) and others wanted to find a cheap rwd vehicle to mess around with. In both cases, for the most part these cars turned into many of the "project" cars people had lying around, others turned into drift machines and eventually many just kept getting beat up to the point where most of the good ones were already bought or not for sale yet. Supply and Demand played out, SC prices didn't skyrocket but they gradually increased over time. Will this increase in price stay the same rate? Who knows but I don't think it'll happen. There is a major lack of enthusiasm behind this car for the general car community, most people don't know what it is and if you tell them there may be very little interest from them.
Finally I'll say this,
It's up to us as owners to show the outside community what this car and what's it all about, if there is no information about it, then spread it, tell people what is truly is and it's potential. Being on this site for a while now I've noticed how much enthusiasm so many of you hold, share that same enthusiasm with others that they'd want to learn about the SC more.
The SC/Soarer is a car that is first of many things, it was both a technical and aesthetic achievement. It provided a new wave of cars and car designs for the future, for one it showed that it's luxurious grand touring capabilities were on par with the Germans (Mercedes SL500, BMW 840i) but it was never recognized for by the car enthusiast community since it didn't have anything to associate with. In Japan, people were familiar with the body style of the Z10 and Z20, since the Z30 looks completely different than the two this caused many people in Japan not to like it however there were also people who on the other end of that too. In the U.S, Lexus was a new brand, with the debut of the LS400 it showed they are focused on Luxury and with the SC it was supposed to be that Lexus can also create a car that looks stylistic as well. Well that worked out very well for Lexus, since they sold a good amount of SCs in the U.S, I think about 80,000 cars. Even on track, the SC performed really well, heck last week I was reading an old article from popularMechanics that showed the SC excelled in every single test they provided when compared to the cars in it's segment. There is so much potential in this vehicle and one of the most popular Toyotas was born because of this car.
Now, are SC prices going up?
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Kind of. The market went really down a few years back, you could find a decent condition SC for less than $2,000 but eventually what happened was people started to notice that. Many got on the "poor man's Supra" wagon (btw I hate that term) and others wanted to find a cheap rwd vehicle to mess around with. In both cases, for the most part these cars turned into many of the "project" cars people had lying around, others turned into drift machines and eventually many just kept getting beat up to the point where most of the good ones were already bought or not for sale yet. Supply and Demand played out, SC prices didn't skyrocket but they gradually increased over time. Will this increase in price stay the same rate? Who knows but I don't think it'll happen. There is a major lack of enthusiasm behind this car for the general car community, most people don't know what it is and if you tell them there may be very little interest from them.
Finally I'll say this,
It's up to us as owners to show the outside community what this car and what's it all about, if there is no information about it, then spread it, tell people what is truly is and it's potential. Being on this site for a while now I've noticed how much enthusiasm so many of you hold, share that same enthusiasm with others that they'd want to learn about the SC more.
07-22-18, 07:24 AM
#20
It's hard for me to say if prices are going up since they never pop up for sale in my city anymore. These cars are so rare that I personally know most of the owners of the local SC's.
Most people don't know this car exist. I work at a Lexus dealership and the SC is very rare. I have seen three SC's and one Soarer come in for service in my year of being there. I'd love to buy another but I have to go out of state to find one. Out of state prices are all over the place. Some are cheap while some are pricey.
I may just buy a Soarer since they are affordable.
Most people don't know this car exist. I work at a Lexus dealership and the SC is very rare. I have seen three SC's and one Soarer come in for service in my year of being there. I'd love to buy another but I have to go out of state to find one. Out of state prices are all over the place. Some are cheap while some are pricey.
I may just buy a Soarer since they are affordable.
07-23-18, 01:40 PM
#21
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New 1993 SC300 owner with 100k miles owner here. Picked it up for $1,650 - as it had been sitting undriven in the elements for a while. Starts and runs fine, body mostly good condition though a minor a repair will be required on one rear quarter panel, otherwise a good detailing will make it look very good. Interior is in very good condition - driver's seat could use some love and there's one split at the top of the drivers door. All the switches and accessories work as advertised and ac blows cold. Needs new tires and I plan to have all the fluids/filters changed. The car has a solid service history so I'm looking forward to getting it up to snuff and enjoying the heck out of it. By the time I get this remedial work done, I expect I'll be into the car for $2,500 - $3,000 which in my opinion is very reasonable for a car of this quality and style and I'm looking forward to my first real road trip with it. Whether it goes up in value or not is still a mystery - one would think it should as it had relatively limited production numbers and many have been left to deteriorate, so good ones should begin to bring a premium, but car values are tricky and in this case would mostly depend on finding the right person who always wanted one. To most people it's just another old car though which is unfortunate, given how terrific they really are.
07-24-18, 06:03 AM
#22
If you want a pristine example of the more collectible 5 speeds (esp a 97) or a late model sc400 it will cost you above 10k. What I noticed is the cherries are getting snapped up quicker and quicker. Once all of the collectible examples get into strong hands the car can transition to precedent setting collectible status. Assuming the JDM 90 boom/tide raises all boats, I suspect the market for an (high attrition) over-built rear wheel drive, interesting engined, analog and attractive GT car with Supra DNA will come.
Not to mention the design is aging really well and I still get complement on my cars interior and look everyday I take it out. I get loads of traffic at cars and coffee
i honestly wouldn’t take a 20k check for my 50k Miles 97 5speed. Part of that is expensive wheels and an original & rare OEM Supra LSD with the stock gear ratio but there is no way I could replace it for that amount and find one cheaper! I can’t really think of a car I rather have for 20k either.
Last edited by Crypto79; 07-24-18 at 02:18 PM.
08-09-18, 04:16 AM
#23
Driver School Candidate
For gearheads, the pride of ownership in a truly unique vehicle that is a work of art is more meaningful than perceived $ value in the marketplace. On almost every long trip I take, someone along the way compliments or is curious about it. So many times admirers comment that they have never seen a Lexus like it! Definitely psychic gratification that is worth more than any dollars assigned to commercial value!
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Ezroni (09-11-18)
08-09-18, 12:19 PM
#25
^^ Those Singer Porsche 911 restoration/restomods are no joke. They went through so much to aesthetically preserve those cars while updating and improving upon the original design in every possible way... from custom made factory-identical wheels that happen to be much wider in the correct offsets to having Williams Advanced Engineering design a reproducible 500hp+ NA version of the air cooled flat 6 engine.
I feel some SC builds detailed here over the years here have shown us how to approach just such a restoration/restomod. Super clean turbo engine builds are only one part of it. The next level for an SC build would be truly bespoke parts that take the best of all the SC/Soarer Z30/Z31 original styling cues and then some.
I think as of right now there actually are a handful of such aesthetic and cosmetic options available for certain parts of our cars from specialty limited run aftermarket parts sellers. What Singer did was secure the financial capital to have certain quantities of 911 parts specially designed to their specifications made in just enough minimum unit batches for the manufacturers of those parts to go for it. But that cost gets passed on to Singer's clients of course
I absolutely agree with you, CoOl21. It would be very cool to do a "Williams-esque" treatment to an SC But I think the decentralized DIY approach around here also makes many options possible in addition to democratizing the extreme cost that Singer 911 clients will pay. It might even be a stretch to say that Supra MKIV owners would ever entertain similar costs for a boutique customized restoration of their cars but I may someday eat those words, who knows.
As an example, certainly one such "Singer-like" development for the MKIV TT's that preserves the stock manufacturer intent with significant improvement has been the Stu Hagen Hybrid GT28 turbo upgrade using the stock sequential turbochargers as a base plus the upgraded exhaust manifold, upgraded 2nd turbo transition pipe, etc. However several years on this remains an expensive niche offering that does not do what all owners want. Similar options also exist for every version of the 1JZ-GTE engines from Soarers, Chasers, etc.
But as applied to SC/Soarers I feel that a truly similar (and hopefully much less expensive) version of what Singer 911's go through would involve a total embracing of the style evolution of the entire Z30/Z31 series and in some cases creating improved versions of cosmetic parts that look the same as some stock parts (such as the beautiful OEM 16x7 7-spoke rims found in 1996 SC400's and many JDM Z30 Soarers) but which are modified in their design to support the best original aesthetic appearance with the best performance experience possible.
I feel some SC builds detailed here over the years here have shown us how to approach just such a restoration/restomod. Super clean turbo engine builds are only one part of it. The next level for an SC build would be truly bespoke parts that take the best of all the SC/Soarer Z30/Z31 original styling cues and then some.
I think as of right now there actually are a handful of such aesthetic and cosmetic options available for certain parts of our cars from specialty limited run aftermarket parts sellers. What Singer did was secure the financial capital to have certain quantities of 911 parts specially designed to their specifications made in just enough minimum unit batches for the manufacturers of those parts to go for it. But that cost gets passed on to Singer's clients of course
I absolutely agree with you, CoOl21. It would be very cool to do a "Williams-esque" treatment to an SC
But I think the decentralized DIY approach around here also makes many options possible in addition to democratizing the extreme cost that Singer 911 clients will pay. It might even be a stretch to say that Supra MKIV owners would ever entertain similar costs for a boutique customized restoration of their cars but I may someday eat those words, who knows.As an example, certainly one such "Singer-like" development for the MKIV TT's that preserves the stock manufacturer intent with significant improvement has been the Stu Hagen Hybrid GT28 turbo upgrade using the stock sequential turbochargers as a base plus the upgraded exhaust manifold, upgraded 2nd turbo transition pipe, etc. However several years on this remains an expensive niche offering that does not do what all owners want. Similar options also exist for every version of the 1JZ-GTE engines from Soarers, Chasers, etc.
But as applied to SC/Soarers I feel that a truly similar (and hopefully much less expensive) version of what Singer 911's go through would involve a total embracing of the style evolution of the entire Z30/Z31 series and in some cases creating improved versions of cosmetic parts that look the same as some stock parts (such as the beautiful OEM 16x7 7-spoke rims found in 1996 SC400's and many JDM Z30 Soarers) but which are modified in their design to support the best original aesthetic appearance with the best performance experience possible.
08-10-18, 08:17 PM
#26
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Just picked up my SC300.
Specs are: 1998 / 97k miles / Has a minor accident recorded on the carfax / fully documented service history with major services (timing, water pump, cam seals, etc. completed)
Interior: Mint. Original leather and exceptionally clean. Big selling point for me
Mechanical: Sound. Car is quiet, all services completed, very confident
Paint: To most the paint would be sufficient especially for a 20 year old car. However, I have noticed some imperfections that I would need to fix to make it perfect.
Purchase price: $7,000 + shipping
Why did I buy and did I get a good deal?
The SC was a childhood favorite car for me. I have fond memories of when the car debuted and how it contributed to the 90's luxury coupe segment. I have had many cars over my years as car enthusiast including recently a collector grade all original 1994 Toyota Supra. I sold that car last year around this time and boy do I wish I waited just one more year. However, the Supra was just sitting. It was simply too perfect and I was paranoid with driving it that something would happen. I was honestly relieved when I got rid of it.
I always wanted an SC300 and this year I decided to make the jump and add it to my line up. The important criteria for me was a car that was 97+, well maintained, clean and original Lexus interior, and clean paint. As I began my search, I realized the inventory for this type of car was literally a handful and their owners were very much aware of what they were holding. My desired purchase price for this car was between $5,750-$6,500 max. The owner of this car was just not willing to budge anymore and ultimately I wanted the car to the point of which $500 was not worth losing the deal.
While I do not think I got a great deal, I do think the car represents a $7,000 value. The paint is not perfect and had I seen the car in person I probably would have negotiated further. I see these cars as maintaining a certain level of value over time. There is an enthusiast market that appreciates this car (guys like us) and the inventory is only going to dwindle further as the majority of these cars are in terrible condition. I think over time clean, well maintained examples will continue to hold their own at shows and car related events. The design and the whole "long body coupe" is representative of a time where car manufacturers took pride in their cars and differentiating their brand. My expectation is the value will increase over time because of the decrease in supply.
My two cents..
Specs are: 1998 / 97k miles / Has a minor accident recorded on the carfax / fully documented service history with major services (timing, water pump, cam seals, etc. completed)
Interior: Mint. Original leather and exceptionally clean. Big selling point for me
Mechanical: Sound. Car is quiet, all services completed, very confident
Paint: To most the paint would be sufficient especially for a 20 year old car. However, I have noticed some imperfections that I would need to fix to make it perfect.
Purchase price: $7,000 + shipping
Why did I buy and did I get a good deal?
The SC was a childhood favorite car for me. I have fond memories of when the car debuted and how it contributed to the 90's luxury coupe segment. I have had many cars over my years as car enthusiast including recently a collector grade all original 1994 Toyota Supra. I sold that car last year around this time and boy do I wish I waited just one more year. However, the Supra was just sitting. It was simply too perfect and I was paranoid with driving it that something would happen. I was honestly relieved when I got rid of it.
I always wanted an SC300 and this year I decided to make the jump and add it to my line up. The important criteria for me was a car that was 97+, well maintained, clean and original Lexus interior, and clean paint. As I began my search, I realized the inventory for this type of car was literally a handful and their owners were very much aware of what they were holding. My desired purchase price for this car was between $5,750-$6,500 max. The owner of this car was just not willing to budge anymore and ultimately I wanted the car to the point of which $500 was not worth losing the deal.
While I do not think I got a great deal, I do think the car represents a $7,000 value. The paint is not perfect and had I seen the car in person I probably would have negotiated further. I see these cars as maintaining a certain level of value over time. There is an enthusiast market that appreciates this car (guys like us) and the inventory is only going to dwindle further as the majority of these cars are in terrible condition. I think over time clean, well maintained examples will continue to hold their own at shows and car related events. The design and the whole "long body coupe" is representative of a time where car manufacturers took pride in their cars and differentiating their brand. My expectation is the value will increase over time because of the decrease in supply.
My two cents..
08-12-18, 09:42 PM
#27
^^Totally agree. I’ve been daily driving various sc’s exclusively for 11 years. Excellently designed cars and I’ve really become a huge fan over the years. My wife and I recently drove 500 miles to pick up an immaculate condition 98 sc400 with less than 80k miles on it. I searched for over a year to get it and I would not let it go for unless it was way above market value.
The love of the car and the diminishing supply will command a higher price over time
The love of the car and the diminishing supply will command a higher price over time
08-14-18, 09:07 AM
#28
Are they going up in price ? Yeah , I see many SCs posted at higher prices now but will they sell at that price ? ... I doubt . Not in my neck of woods where you see a number of SCs listed on craigs any given day of the week. I have been following these SCs in the past 15 years having owned at least 16 of them (SC300/SC400) and still have 7 right now. Those whose prices are up there stay listed for a very long time which simply says the demand is not there for high priced SCs.
Let's face it , there are a lot of enthusiasts who like or love these cars but not a lot of them are willing to pay a premium for them. These cars are well liked because of their potential in the tuner world but most especially they are cheap to start with . Like I saw a red 1997 sc300 sold for $1700 and a few days later , the buyer posted it for $2700 hoping to make some money since he bought it only for $1700 . At this point , he had lowered it to $2500 and still sitting on craigs for a couple of months now
. I just got a clean 5 speed shell for $100 towed to my place from a local member here .... ehhhh that is just the towing cost. He was about to junk it since he got a very clean running 2000 SC300 with black interior for $2000. He also just needed the shell for his swap and so he brought me the complete vvti drive train 
.
Maybe a few SCs , because of their condition and the buyers not doing their home work, will be sold at a high price but I have never really seen the SCs in general sold at a premium at least in my neck of woods in the past 15 years I have been monitoring them. The trend is their sold prices are going lower. It may not be same in places where there are not a lot of them so people in those places who badly want one will grab it at the advertised price even if it is higher than what they are in other places.
Let's face it , there are a lot of enthusiasts who like or love these cars but not a lot of them are willing to pay a premium for them. These cars are well liked because of their potential in the tuner world but most especially they are cheap to start with . Like I saw a red 1997 sc300 sold for $1700 and a few days later , the buyer posted it for $2700 hoping to make some money since he bought it only for $1700 . At this point , he had lowered it to $2500 and still sitting on craigs for a couple of months now
. I just got a clean 5 speed shell for $100 towed to my place from a local member here .... ehhhh that is just the towing cost. He was about to junk it since he got a very clean running 2000 SC300 with black interior for $2000. He also just needed the shell for his swap and so he brought me the complete vvti drive train .Maybe a few SCs , because of their condition and the buyers not doing their home work, will be sold at a high price but I have never really seen the SCs in general sold at a premium at least in my neck of woods in the past 15 years I have been monitoring them. The trend is their sold prices are going lower. It may not be same in places where there are not a lot of them so people in those places who badly want one will grab it at the advertised price even if it is higher than what they are in other places.
Last edited by gerrb; 08-15-18 at 06:55 AM.
08-15-18, 05:43 PM
#30
I suspect people are conflating collector values (unestablished) and used car values. Show me an unmolested late model sc400 or 5 speed with less than 50k mike for Under 10k$. Hell I might buy it
I seriously doubt anyone can find one. On the flip side there simply isn’t enough collector interest or enough survivors to spur a collectors market where the used up cars are bought up, improved and flipped which is how price precedents and two-way markets are established. Because of that cars are junked and supply continues to constrict to a point where soon or later demand will outpace supply and prices will rise across the board just being an SC. That clearly hasn’t happened yet but they are getting rarer.
i am tracking 4 transactions north of 10k in the past couple of years for two incredibly low miles 5speed (a 92 green, 97 desert quartz) my low miles 97 5 speed with recent and pricy add ons and a low miles 99 sc400. I am sure there might be a couple more but at least that shows that people will jump for survivors.
I seriously doubt anyone can find one. On the flip side there simply isn’t enough collector interest or enough survivors to spur a collectors market where the used up cars are bought up, improved and flipped which is how price precedents and two-way markets are established. Because of that cars are junked and supply continues to constrict to a point where soon or later demand will outpace supply and prices will rise across the board just being an SC. That clearly hasn’t happened yet but they are getting rarer.
i am tracking 4 transactions north of 10k in the past couple of years for two incredibly low miles 5speed (a 92 green, 97 desert quartz) my low miles 97 5 speed with recent and pricy add ons and a low miles 99 sc400. I am sure there might be a couple more but at least that shows that people will jump for survivors.
Last edited by Crypto79; 08-15-18 at 05:48 PM.
