abelhands

Just as the title asks. Has anyone done this? I am curious if it is possible to take engine, batteries, hybrid tech and e cvt from a Prius or ct200h and put into a sc 300 or 400.

jadu

iTrader: (42)

I havent come across any one that has put an electric motor in the SC chassis. Electric motors in the front wheels would sure add some MPG

estomax

iTrader: (2)

that's a fwd car you are trying to stuff into an rwd chassis, will be very tricky to make work and take a lot of fabrication. you are probably better off finding a highlander hybrid rear diff and trying to stuff that rear diff in the sc to supplement the stock motor/tranny

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

At the risk of once again making yet another extremely dense post...

No one that I'm aware of has done this. Even in the EV conversion community you will find very little serious (and invested) interest in retrofitting hybrid tech onto a non-hybrid internal combustion engine.

Now if what you are mostly interested in is the electric drive part of a hybrid system... as in a full electric drive conversion and completely removing the 2JZ-GE or 1UZ-FE... THAT approach is very possible. But not without some significant investment. And the amount of the investment directly depends on how much range you'll accept, how much horsepower you'll want (and torque comes in heaps with electric motors), what transmission you will use, and ultimately the characteristics and placement of the batteries and many other systems.

The closest Toyota/Lexus tech I'd consider that anyone in the EV community has played with is the automatic with integrated motors from the Lexus GS450h (I don't recall the applicable model years). If you look up "Damien Maguire EV Lexus Toyota Hybrid Transmission" on youtube you will find about ten videos detailing some initial tinkering with this all in one transmission and drive unit. Theoretically it can put out 200kw (kilowatts)... IF you can get full aftermarket control of the thing. It's all Toyota's proprietary coding in their ECU which governs it and so basically everything would need to be discovered bit by bit from external testing as Maguire has done, OR... the ECU could be cracked by a tuning outfit or other group and the hybrid transmission control could be deconstructed that way. Since it was designed to have an engine bolted to it you could presumably even do that with yet another AC electric motor.... but the V6 that originally came bolted to it would be easiest. Using the entirety of the GS450h drivetrain parts and batteries shoehorned into an SC300/400 would be another approach.

On the note of EV only in a 1st gen SC... I've looked into this myself, researched some of the major parts and figured on a couple of suitable transmission options (notably a Powerglide 2-speed or a modified Tremec T56 Magnum 6-speed) that can handle the torque. An R154 or AR5 would not be a good candidate for anything but very modest power output at or below 200hp EV (because of the torque). A CD009 might do it. Conventional automatic transmissions are generally more trouble than they are worth with EV conversions and that would include the A340E and A650E.

Big twin Warp DC's with a lot of voltage are the cheapest but will shred nearly all transmissions with near or beyond 1,000ft-lbs from 1 rpm at 300V+. Plenty of power that way though. Twin AC motors are slightly closer to how we're used to power being delivered but those are significantly more expensive. Still you'd want a very tough transmission if you used one at all. I'd say V160 tough but no one in their right mind would ever use one of those collector's items in such an application (personally I always looked at any EV setup with a manual transmission for the fun of it).

It can also be done with one motor and about 300V, instant torque and about 160hp (remember, power delivery is totally different with a motor vs an engine) but you'd be only sort of replacing some of the 2JZ-GE or 1UZ-FE's power while adding instant low end torque.

Looking at the weight of an SC with roughly 500lbs of engine removed, 200-300lbs or so of EV motor put back in and 350-500lbs of batteries put in for only 30-50 miles of range... plus the cost of it all... I don't see it as feasible right now. It would be interesting later on especially with a beefy manual transmission but at this time the rough cost estimates I've done for a modest 200hp EV SC300/400 (let alone one with 300-400hp) is too much. If the chassis were as light as a 240SX or Miata where 150hp max would be plenty then it would be a different story. I still feel like even with massive torque from a standing start these cars still need the base 220hp. And the ability to do not only 70mph but *well* beyond that on highways. Beyond that we can get into the whole comparison between these types of drive systems and a turbo 2JZ engine... and at current time there is no comparison cost for cost in the horsepower department. In the driving range department even a mild turbo 2JZ or any stock SC will beat an SC EV conversion.

I'm always keeping an eye on what's going on with hobbyist EV's but right now I don't see pure electric in an SC making sense just due to the cost alone. The people usually doing it are using platforms that are either small and light which don't need too much horsepower to be quick and fun... or they use a platform like a big truck that doesn't need to be quick.

Battery technology currently isn't that great even with the current state of the art and the cost is very high. Give it time and that will change but as of 2017 they still have a long way to go.

The closest to a hybrid setup that even halfway makes sense is starting with an automatic SC300/400 and researching what it would take to fit the entire GS450h drivetrain, battery system and management electronics into an SC. As a fully R&D'd system from the start that might work. But I have no idea if any of it, apart from the unique RWD transmission, will fit well in an SC or make our 3500-3800lb car much heavier.

97-SC300

iTrader: (17)

Why would someone even do this..... let get real here.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

It's a fair point, Dmitry. A hybrid conversion of nearly ANY vehicle model let alone an SC that begs for more horsepower in its stock form is more trouble and complication than it's worth. I can't imagine anyone liking a CVT in an SC300/400. Those awful things suck all the fun out of the driving experience. The GS450h transmission with internal motors that I mentioned is not one of those. While you could theoretically buy all of that car's driveline and electrical parts and put them into an SC... you could also just buy a clean title GS450h and drive it as it is. Much less work that way.

It's difficult to design a reliable hybrid system in the first place. There is also a big difference between the kind of fuel-miser hybrids Toyota has so far released and high performance hybrid systems found in many $100k+++ or $1M+ supercars that directly emphasize the electric motor(s) and kinetic energy recapturing systems (such as F1 style "HY-KERS") as power adders (the LaFerarri, McLaren P1, Porsche 918, etc.). That stuff is extremely expensive right now.

Pure electric... personally I'm open to it in the future with another shell (and a manual gearbox) just to try something new but as I said above, costs are still much too high and batteries need to improve, become lighter and get a LOT cheaper to maintain or exceed an SC's stock performance numbers for the cost invested. You'd currently spend less building an 800whp 2JZ manual car in comparison to even a 200-250hp DIY electric drivetrain (instant torque aside, it's still 200-ish hp)

Realistically it's a big deal for most to invest in turbocharging an SC which is part of the allure of what makes them so popular and iconic. The alternative propulsion being discussed in this thread costs much, much more in an application like this.

OP, if the fuel economy of SC is the main issue then it would make MUCH more sense to build a fun turbo SC for non-daily use and then buy a hybrid car as a daily driver. I do not wish to discourage your curiosity and ideas... but what you are looking into gets very complicated and costly very quickly.

Edit: Probably not at all a good footnote for me to throw in here but there are also the rare (to us) JDM only 1JZ-FSE and 2JZ-FSE non-turbo engines. They aren't hybrid but they got a very early direct injection system, have about the same power output as previous non-turbo JZ engines and supposedly get a bit over 30mpg. They are automatic only and do not have cylinder heads that flow as well as previous JZ heads do. I don't know what grade of fuel they require but there's an example of a JDM-only JZ engine that does better fuel economy than we're used to.

I am aware of no one anywhere swapping in an FSE engine or researching its harness pinouts. If anything, hobbyists overseas probably swap them out in favor of 1JZGTE's or 2JZGTE's. It's a lot of work to basically get exactly the same performance as stock with an automatic transmission only and using an engine that needs some overseas parts to service. Toyota designed them to push the JZ series production cycle a bit farther in the home market before the end to allow platforms that offered other variants of this straight six engine family to have some base fuel miser options. They were not intended as high performance JZ engines.

LexIS007

iTrader: (1)

I agree with him....I think most enthusiasts cringe at the thought of sports cars going the hybrid route in the future, let alone those who love tinkering with them.

This would be a huge undertaking that wouldn't be worth the effort.

Duck05

Hard to judge if the OP was genuine in even asking about this. First gen SC is not a candidate for such an endeavor and the novelty of the result is questionable at best. If I were a moderator I would likely lock this thread......

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Looking at the OP's posts in previous threads I don't think he was being insincere in his original question. I just don't think he was fully aware of the kind of car the SC300/400/Soarer is or the reality of how complicated and expensive an endeavor like this would be for any older car let alone an SC... not to mention how little sense it makes given what this is as a Japanese luxury muscle car. DIY designing or retrofitting a hybrid system is universally unpopular everywhere due to the very high cost and complexity.

Again, if the intent wasn't to *theoretically* use such a system to boost performance but rather make an SC more like a Prius/CT... CVT and all... then that completely misses the point of this car. Even the new LC500h doesn't do it that way.

I was happy to offer some technical talk and caveats on the subject and I don't like to discourage honest and curious questions, however he's yet to reply to his thread and I'm not sure what else can be offered unless the OP is actually interested in trying to do this... something I would not think is the best use of his time, money or an SC chassis.

CatManD3W

iTrader: (18)

if you want a hybrid buy a car that already has had all the R&D testing.....etc...

Buy a Prius.

MDNT_DRV

iTrader: (1)

if money weren't an issue, i would do this first and foremost

MDSC

iTrader: (3)

Jesus.....

plex

iTrader: (11)

Lol I decided to lurk in SC forums for old time sake and came across this.

ThomasGS4

iTrader: (19)

OP makes thread and doesn't even come back. Where's that darn lock?

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

It is perplexing, isn't it Thomas? Giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he's been too preoccupied offline to reply just yet. In any case, for as far out there and questionable as any project like this would be (for a Lexus SC and just about any other car even remotely like an SC) I think more than enough basic information and cautionary wisdom has been covered in his absence.

If the OP truly and honestly wants to try something this complicated and is seriously determined to do it he can start a new thread to begin documenting his project.