Oh My God......repairs Repairs Repairs
03-08-02, 09:40 AM
#17
Lexus Test Driver
This falls under the category of the stuff Lexus *WANTS* you to come in and spend money on. Sure it eliminates a possible tow, but with the many stories of other (Honda in particular) brands of cars bending valves, Lexus is using this as a potential lure for un- suspecting customers. I've personally been told that on average they (Lexus timing belts) will last 100-150k miles.
In my book--- Maintenance items you don't scrimp on:
1. Fluids-ATF, diff, oil, coolant.
2. Filters- oil, fuel, air.
3. Brake inspections and all the various checks are easily done with visual inspections, and your garage floor will be the first to tell you when you have a leak.
Their 60k service has a lot of fluff in it that really doesn't do too much, but also has some significant items like ATF that need replacement.
In my book--- Maintenance items you don't scrimp on:
1. Fluids-ATF, diff, oil, coolant.
2. Filters- oil, fuel, air.
3. Brake inspections and all the various checks are easily done with visual inspections, and your garage floor will be the first to tell you when you have a leak.
Their 60k service has a lot of fluff in it that really doesn't do too much, but also has some significant items like ATF that need replacement.
03-08-02, 09:52 AM
#18
Rookie
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mokena, IL
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The engine in non-interference, like most Toyotas. Don't worry about the belt. It's just a nuisance if it breaks. This is the biggest belt I've ever seen on a car though for timing (on the V8 anyway). It looks like a supercharger belt. Just monsterously wide. Easily lasts 90K. Don't bother before that unless (a) you drive very short distances and don't run up 90K miles in 8-10 years, or (b) you live in a harsh cold or dry climate - freezing cold and very dry air can take a toll on that rubber and crack it.
03-08-02, 10:54 AM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
Originally posted by Lex Luthor
lex400sc, what are reciprocation cycles?? The belt is not to prevent collisions, it's there to extrapolate timing from the position of the piston in the bore, i.e. top dead center, bottom dead center, etc.
lex400sc, what are reciprocation cycles?? The belt is not to prevent collisions, it's there to extrapolate timing from the position of the piston in the bore, i.e. top dead center, bottom dead center, etc.
Originally posted by Lex Luthor
The reason you would have damage would be if the belt snapped, the camshafts wouldn't know where the piston was and could open the valves while the piston is headed for the top of it's stroke, and they could collide. Next, there are no pushrods in these motors, it is an overhead cam design. Also, if your valves and pistons collide, the last thing you'll worry about is the head gasket, since you'd have to replace it to tear down the shortblock anyway. And oil filter?? Lastly, and most importantly, I do not believe these are interference motors, so there is no downside to not changing it except a potential tow bill
The reason you would have damage would be if the belt snapped, the camshafts wouldn't know where the piston was and could open the valves while the piston is headed for the top of it's stroke, and they could collide. Next, there are no pushrods in these motors, it is an overhead cam design. Also, if your valves and pistons collide, the last thing you'll worry about is the head gasket, since you'd have to replace it to tear down the shortblock anyway. And oil filter?? Lastly, and most importantly, I do not believe these are interference motors, so there is no downside to not changing it except a potential tow bill
03-08-02, 12:49 PM
#20
Lexus Champion
lex400sc, I hate to jump on you again, but.....
How in the world could a timing belt break and continue to turn one cam gear?? Also, you stated that these motors have valve guides instead of pushrods, that is incorrect. These motors don't have pushrods because the cam is not located in the 'valley,' where you'd have to have a device to open and close valves, as actuated by the lobes on the camshaft. After all, traditional pushrod motors, and yes i'm very familiar with the GM small block, as well as the Ford and the Chrysler, plus i've played with BOP motors as well (BuickOldsPontiac), have pushrods as well as valve guides, except of course the Ford modular motors, etc. Next, re: what you said about the heads being destroyed if the timing belt snapped, because of combustion inside the head, i've seen motors 'make contact,' the Ford 5.0 motors (actually a 4.9 if you figure the displacement, but that didn't look good on the fender, so 5.0 it is) are notorious for having tight piston-to-valve clearances, i've seen bent valves, holes in pistons, etc, from geniuses who didn't take my advice and 'clay' the motor before they put it together, but none that I saw had also popped a head, let alone both, from combustion above the valve. I'm not saying it's not possible, it certainly is, especially with an aluminum head and decent EGT's, but I just want to make this as clear as possible. Joel, yeah, that thing's like a blower belt, you can see it in the pic I posted, it's damn big, like Scott said, 100-150K mi.
How in the world could a timing belt break and continue to turn one cam gear?? Also, you stated that these motors have valve guides instead of pushrods, that is incorrect. These motors don't have pushrods because the cam is not located in the 'valley,' where you'd have to have a device to open and close valves, as actuated by the lobes on the camshaft. After all, traditional pushrod motors, and yes i'm very familiar with the GM small block, as well as the Ford and the Chrysler, plus i've played with BOP motors as well (BuickOldsPontiac), have pushrods as well as valve guides, except of course the Ford modular motors, etc. Next, re: what you said about the heads being destroyed if the timing belt snapped, because of combustion inside the head, i've seen motors 'make contact,' the Ford 5.0 motors (actually a 4.9 if you figure the displacement, but that didn't look good on the fender, so 5.0 it is) are notorious for having tight piston-to-valve clearances, i've seen bent valves, holes in pistons, etc, from geniuses who didn't take my advice and 'clay' the motor before they put it together, but none that I saw had also popped a head, let alone both, from combustion above the valve. I'm not saying it's not possible, it certainly is, especially with an aluminum head and decent EGT's, but I just want to make this as clear as possible. Joel, yeah, that thing's like a blower belt, you can see it in the pic I posted, it's damn big, like Scott said, 100-150K mi.
03-08-02, 03:09 PM
#21
Originally posted by lex400sc
Huh??? The purpose of a timing belt is to keep the reciprocation cycles in harmony and thus prevent timing collisions. A belt snapping will break your pushrods only---if you're lucky. If you had valves and pistons colliding, you're looking at a new head gasket. Add on top of that tow, oil, oil filter, and of course our favorite...LABOR. You're looking at a roughly $1000 if you had an unlucky snap.
Huh??? The purpose of a timing belt is to keep the reciprocation cycles in harmony and thus prevent timing collisions. A belt snapping will break your pushrods only---if you're lucky. If you had valves and pistons colliding, you're looking at a new head gasket. Add on top of that tow, oil, oil filter, and of course our favorite...LABOR. You're looking at a roughly $1000 if you had an unlucky snap.
03-08-02, 03:23 PM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
Originally posted by Lex Luthor
lex400sc, I hate to jump on you again, but.....
How in the world could a timing belt break and continue to turn one cam gear?? Also, you stated that these motors have valve guides instead of pushrods, that is incorrect. These motors don't have pushrods because the cam is not located in the 'valley,' where you'd have to have a device to open and close valves, as actuated by the lobes on the camshaft. After all, traditional pushrod motors, and yes i'm very familiar with the GM small block, as well as the Ford and the Chrysler, plus i've played with BOP motors as well (BuickOldsPontiac), have pushrods as well as valve guides, except of course the Ford modular motors, etc. Next, re: what you said about the heads being destroyed if the timing belt snapped, because of combustion inside the head, i've seen motors 'make contact,' the Ford 5.0 motors (actually a 4.9 if you figure the displacement, but that didn't look good on the fender, so 5.0 it is) are notorious for having tight piston-to-valve clearances, i've seen bent valves, holes in pistons, etc, from geniuses who didn't take my advice and 'clay' the motor before they put it together, but none that I saw had also popped a head, let alone both, from combustion above the valve. I'm not saying it's not possible, it certainly is, especially with an aluminum head and decent EGT's, but I just want to make this as clear as possible. Joel, yeah, that thing's like a blower belt, you can see it in the pic I posted, it's damn big, like Scott said, 100-150K mi.
lex400sc, I hate to jump on you again, but.....
How in the world could a timing belt break and continue to turn one cam gear?? Also, you stated that these motors have valve guides instead of pushrods, that is incorrect. These motors don't have pushrods because the cam is not located in the 'valley,' where you'd have to have a device to open and close valves, as actuated by the lobes on the camshaft. After all, traditional pushrod motors, and yes i'm very familiar with the GM small block, as well as the Ford and the Chrysler, plus i've played with BOP motors as well (BuickOldsPontiac), have pushrods as well as valve guides, except of course the Ford modular motors, etc. Next, re: what you said about the heads being destroyed if the timing belt snapped, because of combustion inside the head, i've seen motors 'make contact,' the Ford 5.0 motors (actually a 4.9 if you figure the displacement, but that didn't look good on the fender, so 5.0 it is) are notorious for having tight piston-to-valve clearances, i've seen bent valves, holes in pistons, etc, from geniuses who didn't take my advice and 'clay' the motor before they put it together, but none that I saw had also popped a head, let alone both, from combustion above the valve. I'm not saying it's not possible, it certainly is, especially with an aluminum head and decent EGT's, but I just want to make this as clear as possible. Joel, yeah, that thing's like a blower belt, you can see it in the pic I posted, it's damn big, like Scott said, 100-150K mi.
Or at least until I take a look at my engine (but why bother? not like I can ever do anything to it). At least I know now that it's okay to bust a timing chain.
03-08-02, 04:01 PM
#23
Lexus Champion
lex400sc, I didn't mean any offense, and definitely didn't mean to chase you away from engine forums, I just wanted to clarify, that's all, it's not like i've been here for years. The more we all know, the better our SC's run and look, and THAT'S my goal, and why good guys like Jeff Hackman SC300TURBO, Scott Hureau SC300T, Bean, Clint Pohler sc300tt, Arthur Wolfy, Ethan Ebanks, Todd Matsubura DoubleWhoosh, Marcus importtoys, MadMax, Ikon, Brian Veilside RSP, Steven Reed ComputerWiz, Cory lexkid, philauldridge, Percy, Mean Gene, Manaray, ToyLexMods, and Mike Kilty take the time to post on these boards instead of workin' on their Lexi.
03-08-02, 04:11 PM
#24
Pole Position
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: WA
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by lex400sc
Okay, okay, I give up!! I'll stick to non-1UZ-FE threads from now on!
Or at least until I take a look at my engine (but why bother? not like I can ever do anything to it). At least I know now that it's okay to bust a timing chain.
Okay, okay, I give up!! I'll stick to non-1UZ-FE threads from now on!
Or at least until I take a look at my engine (but why bother? not like I can ever do anything to it). At least I know now that it's okay to bust a timing chain.
Sorry to nitpick, but breaking a timing _chain_ would be bad... a _belt_ is usually no big deal since the engine is non-interference (again, IIRC).
My friend broke the belt in his 4A-FE last week and it was no big deal. ...but if I broke the chain on my pop's 2T-C then we'd have some serious problems...
03-08-02, 04:16 PM
#25
Lexus Test Driver
Speaking of working on the Lexi... SC300T is about to make another small upgrade...
The list of mods for this round:
Port, polish, flow bench (balance), extrude hone: head, intake, runners, exhaust manifold. 5 angle race prep head, EGR block plate mod, oversize valves (If i can find) crower springs with titanium retainers, lower compression gasket is possible.
Gonna be out of service for 2-3 weeks
Need to ready internals for 8500rpm!
The list of mods for this round:
Port, polish, flow bench (balance), extrude hone: head, intake, runners, exhaust manifold. 5 angle race prep head, EGR block plate mod, oversize valves (If i can find) crower springs with titanium retainers, lower compression gasket is possible.
Gonna be out of service for 2-3 weeks
Need to ready internals for 8500rpm!
03-08-02, 04:21 PM
#26
Pole Position
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: WA
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by SC300T
Speaking of working on the Lexi... SC300T is about to make another small upgrade...
The list of mods for this round:
Port, polish, flow bench (balance), extrude hone: head, intake, runners, exhaust manifold. 5 angle race prep head, EGR block plate mod, oversize valves (If i can find) crower springs with titanium retainers, lower compression gasket is possible.
Gonna be out of service for 2-3 weeks
Need to ready internals for 8500rpm!
Speaking of working on the Lexi... SC300T is about to make another small upgrade...
The list of mods for this round:
Port, polish, flow bench (balance), extrude hone: head, intake, runners, exhaust manifold. 5 angle race prep head, EGR block plate mod, oversize valves (If i can find) crower springs with titanium retainers, lower compression gasket is possible.
Gonna be out of service for 2-3 weeks
Need to ready internals for 8500rpm!
Reason I ask is that my understanding is that you really only want to rev high if your turbo is setup for that kind of high-end power... you must be running a large turbo...? T-78?
03-08-02, 04:23 PM
#27
Lexus Champion
Looking forward to the results, Scott, sounds like you're preparing the motor to flow some serious air, hmm, you must have a SP66 in mind? Who's doing your headwork?
03-08-02, 05:30 PM
#28
Lexus Test Driver
I've just got a local specialty head machining shop doing the work... The GE is signed up for 50 hours of massage, so it should be good. I'd like to see how far I can go on stock compression and the T60-1... The 60-1 is has best efficiency from 12-20psi, and that's where I'm gonna stay for a little while longer. Long term, I'll add fuel and SP66 (or similar). My short term goal is to end up with the most hp possible from the current setup, widen the torque band, improve top-end and improve off-boost performance. The SMC Alcohol kit acts as a cheap intercooler and has many NOS like properties without some of the drawbacks, further increasing off-boost performance.
03-08-02, 07:40 PM
#29
Lexus Champion
So you are doing the alcohol injection. I'm a big believer in it's abilities also, particularly alcohol's ability to pull heat out of the combustion process. I'm also big into optimizing the current setup before moving on, so i'll be following your progress, since i'll be on the same path you are by this time next year. I figured you'd be headed towards the SP66 at some point, once you enter 2bar territory, it's gonna be a handful. 50 hours of porting and flow-benching, very nice, doesn't AEM make cam gears for the GE? I'm thinking you could optimize the stock bumpsticks as long as you've got the head off, at least until Crower can grind you something with less overlap and 272 duration, Ethan was able to get Brian at Crower to grind 272 cams for the GE, but I guess you're looking to keep the stock cams and head gasket for now, so I won't get ahead of myself. I'm more motivated than ever to build something to compete with you and Jeff, but he's doing some next-level ***** now, so I guess we'd better watch out.
03-08-02, 07:56 PM
#30
Lexus Test Driver
I didn't think Ethan got a hold of any cams... Are they available? Price? I'd certainly entertain some options here. I heard cam gears didn't do much without higher lift and duration. If anyone has any ideas, let me know. Since I have too much fuel already, I'd love to be able to use one of the extra injectors on my intercooler piping to squirt alcohol with the Haltech F5, that way I'd have a more direct control over the flow as opposed to a NOS nozzle. I didn't think that a standard 550cc injector would squirt alcohol very long without crapping out, though. I'm starting to lean towards reducing the compression ratio while we're in there tinkering around.