raine

iTrader: (7)

Dude, did you look through/search this thread in advance?

ASTERiSK

Been testing around with my friend's wheels. We think I can tuck 19x11 +30 in the rears with -6 camber, but the front is gonna do just fine with 19x10 +15 with -5.5 camber. What do you guys think? My camber is kinda messed up, that camber is the least camber I can have :\

ASTERiSK

It also matters how wide the wheels are. I think of -50 to +50 the range of most offsets (Some wheels can go past that, but that's just way too ridiculous). Offset is kinda like a scale and that scale's range gets wider as the wheels do (I mean that +30 offset is gonna be more aggressive on an 11" wide wheel than a 10"). If your wheels aren't that wide then you're gonna need even less offset to be on par with a wider wheel. For a wheel to be at least decent IMO it needs to be in the +30 or so offset to have an aggressive lip that at least comes near the fender.

raine

iTrader: (7)

Wow - you better fix your car first because if the rear is at -6 minimum and the front is at -5.5 minimum than sorry dude, but either you are measuring it wrong or your suspension is pretty messed up

There's no way you even need that much camber to fit 19x11 +30's and 19x10 +15's, you can get those wheels on a car with just -1.5-2 camber all around.

raine

iTrader: (7)

And at least 8.5" wide, wider in the rear. If you're driving a rear wheel drive car, the rear should have more meat than the front

IMO.

ASTERiSK

I plan on tucking the rears, at least until I get a shine kit too. When I do I'll have it lip to fender. But yeah I think I should go find some SC's in the junk yard and see if the control arms are better. My car came from Massachusetts to California, so it's seen some snow and has had a lot of time on the freeway.

raine

iTrader: (7)

Right... just so you know, when I say "fit" that means full suspension travel, tuck or no tuck.

If I jack my car up on one front corner, the opposite rear will tuck lip to fender without hitting anything - and I have -3 camber in the rear... no where near -6.

GIMJ

SC400
Megan Coilovers
Rolled fenders
Barely 1 finger gap in the front, no gap in the back
18x9.5 +15 | 245/40/18 Nexen
18x10.5 +20 | 255/35/18 Falken

I was wondering if I can fit a 265/40 on the rear wheel? I looked through this thread (albeit skipping 100 pages or so), and I couldn't find anyone who put a 265/40 on a 10.5 +20 wheel. I seek the tire gurus for your expertise. Thanks!

raine

iTrader: (7)

Looks like your new tire overall diameter will be over an inch taller (1.32" to be exact) and almost 0.4" wider - meaning 0.2" wider on the outside. To fit that new tire you'll need to make sure it'll clear your fenders now, or make the fender adjustments to clear.

OG Dada

iTrader: (10)

My specs;

19x9.5 +12 235/35/19
19x10.5 +22 245/35/19

Lotsa camber, I need more pull from previous roll and pull on all fenders.

raine

iTrader: (7)

OFFSET/CAMBER REFRESHER NOTES
- for those who may be confused about it, I decided to share some knowledge. This might turn out to be a long post, but better to have lots of info than barely any at all =)

DEFINITIONS:
Offset = A wheel's offset is the difference between the location of the wheel pad and the actual centerline of the wheel itself.
Camber = Camber is the angle difference between the wheel and 90-degrees vertical, when viewed from the front/rear of the vehicle.

FYI The wheel "pad" is the mounting area of the wheel - or to make it easy - the only part of the wheel that actually touches the car when you put the wheel on. The pad is the backside of the wheel face, the "face" part being the center of the wheel you see when you're standing outside your car.

Look (photo originally from the internet):


1. Left wheel has positive offset; the wheel pad is closer to the FRONT (outside) of the wheel.
2. Middle wheel is 0 offset; the wheel pad is at the exact same spot as the wheel center.
3. Right wheel has negative offset; the wheel pad is closer to the BACK of the wheel.

So generally the lower the offset, the more "lip" a wheel will have, but more importantly if you go with lower offset wheels, you will fill your wheel well better, have a wider stance for better handling, and have a more flush wheel fitment.

But don't let that sample photo above trick you into thinking that if you want lip and flush fitment that you need a NEGATIVE offset wheel. This is where things get a little confusing for some. Consider the following when making a decision on purchasing wheels:


1. All OEM wheels have positive offset.
I'm not 100% on this, but I'm 99.9%. Aside from maybe some super cars and specialty vehicles, a majority of standard "normal" cars all have positive wheel offset. When manufacturers select wheels they choose one that is a compromise between ride quality, performance, and something that will fit under the OEM fender without hitting anything. That pretty much explains why OEM wheels are usually sunken in (not flush). For reference, the OEM SC300 16x6.5" wheels have a +50 offset. This is the main reason why when someone posts in this thread that they got a deal on some "18x8 +50" or something similar and want to look "hella flush", that it won't really happen. Sure you can add a giant spacer, but it still won't look good - it'll look like a horse wagon (wide body, narrow wheels at the edges LOL). You need less offset compared to OEM to bring the wheel OUT - more even with the fender - for a better looking fitment (see #2, below).


2. Ideally you would want to find an aftermarket wheel that is wider, and with less offset compared to OEM.
Now then, that doesn't mean that to get lip and flush fitment that you need to go out and find zero-offset wheels. In fact, it is rare for any car to fit a zero-offset wheel without major suspension/fender modifications. But since OEM is +50, your goal when shopping for new wheels is to look for something lower than that, somewhere around the 25-35 range depending on wheel width.

For some suggestions on wheel offset for SC300/400's, please see my post #4444.

So in other words, wheel width and the right offset for that width will do wonders for how good your car looks (see #3, below).


3. Wheel and tire width dictates how much offset you'll need for a flush or poke fitment.
This is the main tricky part; what offset you need for fitment is dependent on how wide the wheel is.

Look:


1. Black tire is on a 7.0" wide wheel that has +11 offset
2. Green tire is wider, on a 8.5" wide wheel that has +30 offset
3. Blue tire is wider, on a 9.5" wide wheel that has +43 offset
4. Red tire is wider, on a 10" wide wheel that has +49 offset

If you were to put each wheel/tire combo on the car and take a look at how the fitment is from the outside of the car, ALL of the wheel/tire setups above will look exactly the same - they will all be the same distance from the fender. This is because the as the wheel gets wider, you don't need as much offset to get the same outside fitment.

Your wheel/tire choice will also depend on the fitment you're looking for; these days most people chase after a flush or poke fitment.

DEFINITIONS
Flush = A "flush" fitment is when the top edge of wheels are about even with the edge of the fenders; note that I said "top edge" because, due to camber (more on that later) the bottom of the wheel will most likely be wider than the car fender. This setup will most likely require a fender roll for a correct "flush" fitment - unless you're ride height has a lot of space between the top of the tire and bottom of the fender (which also means you need to lower your car.)

Poke = A "poke" fitment is when the wheel lips barely "poke" out from the fender line when the car is viewed from the front or rear of the car. "Poke" requires a combination of tire stretch, camber adjustment, wheel offset, and fender rolling and pulling. How do you have a wheel "poke" out and keep it from hitting the fender everytime you roll up a driveway or hit a bump in the road? That's where camber comes into play (see #4, below).


4. Camber will allow for wider wheels and/or lower offset.
Ah, camber. Some people use it right, some people go overboard and look retarded doing it. But HEY that's not what we're talking about LOL

Camber - the angle that your wheel sits at in relation to 90-degrees vertical - can be a helpful tool in fitting wheels. Camber is the last step in fitting wheels, and your wheel diameter/width/offset will help determine how much camber you'll need to make it fit properly. Also if you do it right you'll add some extra grip when cornering - but only to an extent; go overboard with camber and not only do you make your car have worse handling and ride quality, but you also wear tires, put unnecessary loads on your suspension (leading to premature wear or damage), and your car looks like Super Mario mushroom-stomped it to the ground.

Look:


So how is camber helpful when fitting wheels? For example, let's say that you have a 19" diameter wheel that is 8" wide, your alignment is at zero degrees of camber, and the wheel is flush with the fender:

A 1-degree reduction in camber (-1) gives you approx. 0.33" difference at the top of the wheel, in other words 1/3" more room between the wheel and the fender. A 2-degree reduction in camber (-2) gives you approx. 0.66" difference. That's over 1/2" of extra room on the outside - meaning if you were to go with -2 degrees of camber you could have fit a wider 19x9" wheel in the same space as the 19x8" wheel with zero degrees of camber. Please note that a lot of this 'extra clearance" is also affected by tire brand, model, and sizing (see #5, below).


5. Stretching tires will allow for more clearance for a lower stance, lower offset., and "poke" fitment.
You can also gain more clearance when you stretch a tire (assuming you keep your wheel lip outside of the fender, and not tucked in like you broke something).

Look:


The amount of extra clearance gained by stretching varies by wheel width, tire width, tire profile height, tire brand, and tire model. Do NOT assume that a 265/30 tire from brand A will have the same fitment, same stretch, and tire shape as a 265/30 tire from brand B. Also, don't go overboard when stretching tires to make a wheel fit; just like camber, too much stretch isn't a good thing for the car or your handling; there is a reason why tire manufacturers have recommended wheel widths for their tires, and more importantly - load ratings. narrower tires have lower load ratings (the weight they're designed to support safely) so, just like camber, stretch appropriately. I know some of you love that super stretched omg-jdm-hella-flush-illest look, but it's not optimal. Just don't try to stretch a 325 tire on an 11.5" wheel just to make it fit - your problem there isn't the tire, it's the wheel.


6. Tire width and tire aspect ratio will determine stretch.
When selecting a tire size for your wheel width, you must understand that the width of the tire is important, but the aspect ratio (a.k.a. sidewall height) is also very important when it comes to tire stretching. Both width and aspect ratio are relative to one another; so a 35-series tire will actually get a taller sidewall the wider you go in tire width - for example, a 225/35 will have a lower profile sidewall than a 265/35, even if they both are "35-series" tires, because the "35" is actually a percentage of the tire width.

Selecting a tire is tricky when you're dealing with lowering your car even or tucked on low-offset wheels, because it takes a combination of many things to get the "perfect" fitment. Sometimes you have to actually change tire sizes (even after lowering, custom alignment and fender work) just to get that perfect fitment. That said, there are general tire size recommendations for a specific wheel width and diameter, but it might not work with all setups - since everyone's setup will vary by wheel width, wheel offset, tire width, tire aspect ratio, ride height, fender modifications, and camber adjustment. For example, just because I'm running 265/30-19's on 10.5" rear wheels, that doesn't mean that you can run the same and get the same exact fitment/appearance, because my fenders are rolled and pulled, I have a custom alignment, and my ride height is at a specific setting.

Here's some GENERAL tire size suggestions for common wheel widths. Some people might run wider or narrower; everyone has their own setup so there is no SPECIFIC tire size that is REQUIRED for any given wheel - but there is a "safe range" that will fit with most setups. The tire sizes listed below WILL FIT the wheel specified; however, there is NO GUARANTEE that it will fit your setup on your car without camber or fender modifications, because once again - fitment depends on wheel width, wheel diameter, wheel offset, ride height, camber setting, tire width, tire aspect ratio, and fender modifications. With so many variables in fitment, there are likewise many different wheel/offset/tire size combinations possible.

GENERAL Tire Sizing Suggestions
(fitment varies by wheel dimensions, ride height, alignment, and fender modifications)

18x8.5 = 215/45 to 235/45
18x9.0 = 225/45 to 245/40
18x9.5 = 235/40 to 255/35
18x10 = 245/35 to 265/35
18x10.5 = 255/35 to 275/35

19x8.5 = 215/35 to 235/35
19x9.0 = 225/35 to 245/35
19x9.5 = 235/35 to 255/30
19x10 = 245/35 to 265/30
19x10.5 = 255/30 to 275/30
19x11 = 265/30 to 285/30


SO HOW DO YOU GET THE FITMENT YOU WANT?
Did you notice that all of the 5 points listed above are related to one another? Did you notice that all of the 5 points listed above affect one another if you make one change in the measurements? That's why fitting wheels isn't a simple matter of picking sizes and putting them on your car. Be aware that there is no perfect formula for wheel fitment! If you want your car to have a good wheel/tire fitment, you have to put the work into it!

If you're expecting to be able to ask in this thread "what wheel size/width/offset and what tire size", slap them on your car, and have the perfect flush or poke fitment, guess what - it's not that easy. Likewise, if you're expecting to copy someone else's wheel setup perfectly (diameter, width, offset, tire sizing) and just put them on your car, guess what - your car won't look like the guy you copied. Not without work. That work involves:

Step 1: You will need to select a wheel and tire setup that is ideal for what kind of look you want. There are literally hundreds of examples in this thread - if you're too lazy to do the work and research and read the thread, don't expect anyone here to help you out and give you a freebie - we worked hard to get our fitment, you need to do the same. All of the information already in this thread should be more than enough for someone to figure out the right wheel and tire sizing, leaving just the wheel style and color/finish to your own personal tastes.

Step 2: Once you fit the wheels/tires on the car, you will need to adjust your ride height to where you want it. This is important because if you adjust ride height later, then you'll have to re-do the next steps over and over again. Also, this is something you do AFTER you buy the wheels and tires and have them on the car; adjusting ride height or fenders "to get ready" for aftermarket wheels doesn't make sense, because if you don't have the wheels on the car to begin with, what's the point? You're just guessing. Wait until you have the wheels and tires ready to go.

Step 3: You will need to roll the fenders, then maybe pull them (depending on wheel/tire overall width). If you're looking for any type of flush or poke fitment, fender rolling is required. "Rolling" (folding the lower edge of the fender flat on the inside) gives you extra clearance for the wider/larger diameter wheels and tires you're putting on the car, and it lets you position the wheels closer to the edges of the fenders for that nice flush look. "Pulling" (physically pulling the fender outward more from stock position) is for fine-tuning when you're running more aggressive wheel setups. If you don't know how to roll/pull fenders, have it done by someone who does.

Step 4: You will need to get a custom alignment - once you have the wheels and tires fitted, the ride height set, and the fenders rolled/pulled. The alignment will set your suspension angles correct so that your car will track straight and your tire wear will be minimized. The alignment is also the "final touch" when you need some small camber adjustments to get the wheel fitment just right.

Do yourself a favor and don't go to your local Discount Tire Center or some other place, and skip the "garage with lasers" stuff just to save some cash:




Do it right - get an alignment from someone who knows what they're doing when it comes to lowered cars with aggressive wheel fitments! If you're in SoCal there's only one guy to go to:



Cyrus is the man @ JC Autohouse in Temple City (626-287-7781, Mon-Sat, sometimes Sunday by appointment only); if you're somewhere in NorCal or out of the state I can't help you there... ask around and find someone reputable who specializes in lowered cars. You already spent a good chunk of money on your new wheels, you already spent $a good chunk of money on your tires, why not spend a little more money to get a correct, proper lowered car alignment?

Step 5: You will need to accept two facts: you have to adjust your driving style, and you have to pay attention to your tires on a regular basis.

A. With a lowered car and an aggressive fitment, you need to adjust how you drive. You have to be aware of super bumpy or messed up roads and highways; a pothole or expansion break in the pavement that would barely move your stock car with OEM wheels and OEM tires will become a hard knock on larger wheels with wider, lower profile tires. Another thing - be careful when parallel parking! If you aren't that good with parallel parking, practice in someone else's SUV or something. Also, road and obstacle clearance in general will be less than before. Your car is lower, your tires are thinner - driveways become steeper, speed bumps become taller. You can daily drive a lowered car; it's all a matter of how you set it up fitment-wise in the first place. For example, I'm lowered flush on coilovers with a poke fitment on 19" wheels with 35/30-series tires. Sure, there's other cars out there with "hella flush" fitment or -6-degree camber that may look "cool" - but they are also the cars that can't even hit normal highway speeds without worrying if they're going to bottom out or rip a fender. The whole "static height" thing is over-rated; if you enjoy driving your car, keep it driveable.

B. Tires will wear faster with aggressive setups. It's just part of the deal, especially if you're running non-OEM camber settings. That said, you must stay aware of your tire pressure, monitor tire wear, and rotate/flip your tires on a regular basis in order to get the most life out of them. After all, your new tire setup costs a lot more than OEM, and I'm pretty sure you'd want them to last as long as they can, right?

So there you have it, I hope you learned something from this post. Choosing the right wheel and tire combination may not be simple, but it's not difficult either. All of this takes time, experimentation, and some good old labor in the garage to get it to look good. But when you get the job done and you do it the right way, your car will look damn good =)

raine

iTrader: (7)

You need more pull, I'm on less offset with wider tire in the rear at only -3 camber

OG Dada

iTrader: (10)

That and need to change brand of tires. You're right, the Achilles have a more squared out edge that makes it wider than other brands. And also get alignment rechecked by Cyrus. Lol

raine

iTrader: (7)

Just the other day I heard from someone local that those Achillies tires wear fast (like Generals)... how many miles did you get from those tires so far?

OG Dada

iTrader: (10)

I'm going 7k soon. I flipped the fronts after 6 months, 9 months on the rear.