Panoramic moon roof catastrophe
04-13-18, 07:08 PM
#16
Lexus Test Driver
I agree all about the view from the inside. As I said, I don't have it in the RX but have it on my Azera and never close the shade.
04-13-18, 10:40 PM
#18
Lexus Champion
It sounds like a factory defect. My pano moon roof would not close when the car had 20 miles on it, and the dealer fixed it (so it is not like Lexus never had any factory defect). But the pano roof still keeps the RX very quiet without having to close the shade. Unfortunately, it sounds like you need to go to court for this one.
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javapro (04-14-18)
04-14-18, 10:38 AM
#19
Lexus Test Driver
04-14-18, 11:15 AM
#20
Lexus Champion
Doesn’t matter that Toyota has lawyers on retainer throughout the country, courts and judges will be sympathetic owed to the fact that she informed Lexus about the issue, and she felt there was something wrong, before it led to the unfortunate outcome. Lexus should have asked her to come in immediately. I find it hard to believe that the panoramic glass is $4,500 to repair. I would shop for bids and if falls under $2,500 go directly to Small Claims Court and file.
first, you have to hire an attorney on your dime, in a case like this it won't be "pro bono" you don't pay if we don't win, you will fork over $2500 or more in a retainer, and depending on the attorney pay $295 - $500 an hour
second, Toyota will likely deny all allegations and likely will fight it to arbitration, at arbitration the mutual agreed on arbitrator will decided if Toyota pays or not, but the burden of proof is on you to prove that it was a defect and not environment related damage, this isn't criminal court where reasonable doubt comes into play, this is civil arbitration where you must PROVE your case 100%.
Third, Toyota might settle if they feel the arbitration won't go in their favor, but by this point you will likely have already spent well more than the $4,500 quote for the glass in attorney fees, and they are not required to reimburse your attorney fees.
Lastly, if arbitration find in favor of Toyota, you will have to pay the arbitrator costs and likely some of Toyota's legal cost.
--
I been through this process twice, once with Chrysler and once with GM, I was lucky and I won both times, but in both cases the warranty issue "cost" was in excess of the attorney fees so it was worth it, the Engine in my Chrysler was $30K with the labor, known lean issue in the Hemi 5.7L and 6.1L led to detonation and a blown motor, my case is what resulted in a nationwide recall of the motor for the issue on 2005 - 2008 Chrysler 300s, Chargers, Magnum 5.7L and 6.1L motors. With GM it was the car was Lemon Lawed, GM didn't want to face arbitration because they knew they had a defect in the 2011-2013 Camaro Convertible tops and had already lemon lawed several hundred for it. Since I won the Chrysler case they had to pay my attorney fees, ~$10K, for GM I had to pay out of pocket for the retainer, and was not reimbursed because it never went to arbitration, but GM did agree to reimbursement for all my mods and maintenance costs on the Camaro, so it was a wash.
04-14-18, 12:11 PM
#21
Intermediate
you have obviously never been involved in a civil matter regarding warranty laws or lemon laws, I have and it doesn't work that way.
first, you have to hire an attorney on your dime, in a case like this it won't be "pro bono" you don't pay if we don't win, you will fork over $2500 or more in a retainer, and depending on the attorney pay $295 - $500 an hour
second, Toyota will likely deny all allegations and likely will fight it to arbitration, at arbitration the mutual agreed on arbitrator will decided if Toyota pays or not, but the burden of proof is on you to prove that it was a defect and not environment related damage, this isn't criminal court where reasonable doubt comes into play, this is civil arbitration where you must PROVE your case 100%.
Third, Toyota might settle if they feel the arbitration won't go in their favor, but by this point you will likely have already spent well more than the $4,500 quote for the glass in attorney fees, and they are not required to reimburse your attorney fees.
Lastly, if arbitration find in favor of Toyota, you will have to pay the arbitrator costs and likely some of Toyota's legal cost.
--
I been through this process twice, once with Chrysler and once with GM, I was lucky and I won both times, but in both cases the warranty issue "cost" was in excess of the attorney fees so it was worth it, the Engine in my Chrysler was $30K with the labor, known lean issue in the Hemi 5.7L and 6.1L led to detonation and a blown motor, my case is what resulted in a nationwide recall of the motor for the issue on 2005 - 2008 Chrysler 300s, Chargers, Magnum 5.7L and 6.1L motors. With GM it was the car was Lemon Lawed, GM didn't want to face arbitration because they knew they had a defect in the 2011-2013 Camaro Convertible tops and had already lemon lawed several hundred for it. Since I won the Chrysler case they had to pay my attorney fees, ~$10K, for GM I had to pay out of pocket for the retainer, and was not reimbursed because it never went to arbitration, but GM did agree to reimbursement for all my mods and maintenance costs on the Camaro, so it was a wash.
first, you have to hire an attorney on your dime, in a case like this it won't be "pro bono" you don't pay if we don't win, you will fork over $2500 or more in a retainer, and depending on the attorney pay $295 - $500 an hour
second, Toyota will likely deny all allegations and likely will fight it to arbitration, at arbitration the mutual agreed on arbitrator will decided if Toyota pays or not, but the burden of proof is on you to prove that it was a defect and not environment related damage, this isn't criminal court where reasonable doubt comes into play, this is civil arbitration where you must PROVE your case 100%.
Third, Toyota might settle if they feel the arbitration won't go in their favor, but by this point you will likely have already spent well more than the $4,500 quote for the glass in attorney fees, and they are not required to reimburse your attorney fees.
Lastly, if arbitration find in favor of Toyota, you will have to pay the arbitrator costs and likely some of Toyota's legal cost.
--
I been through this process twice, once with Chrysler and once with GM, I was lucky and I won both times, but in both cases the warranty issue "cost" was in excess of the attorney fees so it was worth it, the Engine in my Chrysler was $30K with the labor, known lean issue in the Hemi 5.7L and 6.1L led to detonation and a blown motor, my case is what resulted in a nationwide recall of the motor for the issue on 2005 - 2008 Chrysler 300s, Chargers, Magnum 5.7L and 6.1L motors. With GM it was the car was Lemon Lawed, GM didn't want to face arbitration because they knew they had a defect in the 2011-2013 Camaro Convertible tops and had already lemon lawed several hundred for it. Since I won the Chrysler case they had to pay my attorney fees, ~$10K, for GM I had to pay out of pocket for the retainer, and was not reimbursed because it never went to arbitration, but GM did agree to reimbursement for all my mods and maintenance costs on the Camaro, so it was a wash.
04-14-18, 12:14 PM
#22
Intermediate
never use ours, but do like it as there is less color paint to keep waxed, and very easy to clean glass on roof without worrying about paint surface scratches.
04-14-18, 01:38 PM
#23
The pano roof is one of the two options I wish my car did not have. The other is the HUD. I live in Arizona and the amount of extra heat the pano roof lets in is significant even with the shade closed. I always wear polarized sunglasses during the day so I can't see the HUD. Oh well, maybe I'll get something for them in resale.
04-14-18, 05:57 PM
#24
Lexus Test Driver
The pano roof is one of the two options I wish my car did not have. The other is the HUD. I live in Arizona and the amount of extra heat the pano roof lets in is significant even with the shade closed. I always wear polarized sunglasses during the day so I can't see the HUD. Oh well, maybe I'll get something for them in resale.
04-15-18, 01:36 AM
#25
The pano roof is one of the two options I wish my car did not have. The other is the HUD. I live in Arizona and the amount of extra heat the pano roof lets in is significant even with the shade closed. I always wear polarized sunglasses during the day so I can't see the HUD. Oh well, maybe I'll get something for them in resale.
or some other option if not already,
04-15-18, 10:11 AM
#26
I have the Pano roof on my 2017 RX and I have experienced the rough cut of the head liner but not any noise at any speed. It sounds like the rear passenger glass lifted up to cause noise and then finally flew off the RX? So the glass in the rear is simply “glued” into a frame?
I wonder if Lexus tried to push up on the glass when the noise was reported where you could tell the glass was lifting up causing the noise and rattle?
They do miss problems. I know my 2017 had 5k on it so it was CPO but they missed the drivers door would not lock with the electronic key, locked only manually. That was one of the CPO inspection points that was checked as working properly.
I wonder if Lexus tried to push up on the glass when the noise was reported where you could tell the glass was lifting up causing the noise and rattle?
They do miss problems. I know my 2017 had 5k on it so it was CPO but they missed the drivers door would not lock with the electronic key, locked only manually. That was one of the CPO inspection points that was checked as working properly.
04-15-18, 02:32 PM
#27
Lexus Champion
Small Claims Court is different. That's why I said go to it, if possible. Which State you reside in also makes a difference. BTW, I was the only employed American in an all Japanese top-tier university graduate foreign nationals US satellite offices where I retained high-end legal counsel and spent over a decade in court handling matters for one of Japan's top-ten multinational corporations. What I found is that the Japanese (at least the corporation that I worked for) always wanted to do the right thing—it was the American third-parties that advised against them doing so. We used arbitration once, and thereafter I advised against doing so (unless bound by contract) as it was utterly useless and skewed.
as far as small claims, I suspect it won't work, vehicle warranties have very specific terms in how things like this are handled, while it varies some from state to state, for the most part the moment you attempt a small claims or legal action and step outside of the arbitration agreement you signed when you purchased the car, the manufacturer will lock up and no longer offer you any thing to remedy the situation outside of their legal requirement to do so. As long as the door is open they might negotiate, especially in the age of social media storms, but the minute they get served with legal paperwork you can forget any easy resolution.
04-15-18, 07:56 PM
#28
04-16-18, 04:14 PM
#29
Wow, the proverbial “the little, old lady” has the roof fly off her new car and Lexus warranty will not correct a manufacturer’s defect.
A bit of hind sight comments. Always, always make sure when you go in to Lexus to request something or have something looked at, make sure it is written down by the service advisor on the work order form. Keep your own log of the dates and times you called someone and get that person’s name and their title.
If if you can, photograph your car. In this case, photograph the perimeter of the hole left by the missing glass. Having an adhesive (glue) problem I would have thought glass shards and adhesive would be missing in areas around the hole. If all the perimeter was completely surrounded by an adhesive and glass I might accept their rock/hail story.
Prrsonally, I’m going to check my warranty as I drive a lot of interstate traversed by many gravel trucks and I’ve driven in small hail once or twice.
A bit of hind sight comments. Always, always make sure when you go in to Lexus to request something or have something looked at, make sure it is written down by the service advisor on the work order form. Keep your own log of the dates and times you called someone and get that person’s name and their title.
If if you can, photograph your car. In this case, photograph the perimeter of the hole left by the missing glass. Having an adhesive (glue) problem I would have thought glass shards and adhesive would be missing in areas around the hole. If all the perimeter was completely surrounded by an adhesive and glass I might accept their rock/hail story.
Prrsonally, I’m going to check my warranty as I drive a lot of interstate traversed by many gravel trucks and I’ve driven in small hail once or twice.
