OEM Michelin, OEM Bridgestone Vs Other (merged threads)
12-18-18, 08:13 AM
#256
Lexus Test Driver
How about the Admins close this thread.
12-18-18, 11:19 AM
#257
Looks like others agree with me on the treadwear:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...earDiameter=17
12-18-18, 01:03 PM
#258
Racer
Premier LTX user here. At 25k miles I'm down to 4/32" and the wet performance has decreased noticeably. I am now hydroplaning a little on the freeway. The tread depth starts at 8.5/32" so probably no more than 11k miles left on these tires. Yes I rotate them regularly, which is annoying because Discount Tire enjoys pointing at the chart to tell you just how low 4/32" is, because they aren't aware that these tires are designed to wear to 2/32".
Looks like others agree with me on the treadwear:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...earDiameter=17
Looks like others agree with me on the treadwear:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...earDiameter=17
12-19-18, 05:04 AM
#259
Intermediate
Like Gadgetman1 I fully believe, and have experienced, the lessor quality of OEM tires, and will never buy replacements from the dealer. What I am concerned about is getting quality tires from aftermarket sources. I guess the only way to know is to make sure a tread wear guarantee is offered. Any other suggestions?
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gadgetman1 (12-19-18)
12-19-18, 10:26 AM
#260
I went over to a Discount Tire yesterday & they showed me a Pirelli Scorpion tire that is fairly new & has rave reviews (so far). The offered to call Bridgestone for credit for me if the dealer won’t do it. The DT assistant manager said he had nearly the same complaints of rapid wear on the OEM Michelin Premier tires, just not as many as the Bridgestone. Tire Rack offers a BF Goodrich (Michelin) tire that has rave reviews, but I’ve never bought tires from Tire Rack & prefer to deal with local folks for customer service when I have a flat or need a replacement tire.
I just don’t know what to think about all of this, other than I’ve been totally screwed by Lexus. Perhaps the dealer will make it right, but I’m skeptical at best. A nearly $60,000 automobile shouldn’t have tire issues at 22,000 miles unless I was drag racing the damn thing. I feel it’s wrong that I will have to spend $900 on freak’n new tires just two years after a purchased this car.
I just don’t know what to think about all of this, other than I’ve been totally screwed by Lexus. Perhaps the dealer will make it right, but I’m skeptical at best. A nearly $60,000 automobile shouldn’t have tire issues at 22,000 miles unless I was drag racing the damn thing. I feel it’s wrong that I will have to spend $900 on freak’n new tires just two years after a purchased this car.
12-19-18, 11:08 AM
#261
Lexus Test Driver
So I was just at Costco yesterday and today because of the nails. Apparently I had a nail in each tire.. Also, my starbucks card got hacked... NOt a good day for me haha.
Anyways, the guy told me he called Michelin and the LTX's are backordered for 10 weeks. He told me that in CA it's not a good seller and will most likely stop selling them. There is a different Michelin that will be released but that's TBD.
I had to suck it up and buy the Bridgestone Ecopia's. Having had the Michelin's for 30,000 we will see how the Bridgestone's do when they get installed.
Until then, I have a slow leak in my tire haha.
HE also told me that the H and the V are not just about different max speeds, it's the way they composite the tire so it's best to stick with that is supposed to go in the tires from factory. And he told me in if you don't like the tires, you can get refunded and do different tires within 30 days.
Anyways, the guy told me he called Michelin and the LTX's are backordered for 10 weeks. He told me that in CA it's not a good seller and will most likely stop selling them. There is a different Michelin that will be released but that's TBD.
I had to suck it up and buy the Bridgestone Ecopia's. Having had the Michelin's for 30,000 we will see how the Bridgestone's do when they get installed.
Until then, I have a slow leak in my tire haha.
HE also told me that the H and the V are not just about different max speeds, it's the way they composite the tire so it's best to stick with that is supposed to go in the tires from factory. And he told me in if you don't like the tires, you can get refunded and do different tires within 30 days.
12-19-18, 11:15 AM
#262
So I was just at Costco yesterday and today because of the nails. Apparently I had a nail in each tire.. Also, my starbucks card got hacked... NOt a good day for me haha.
Anyways, the guy told me he called Michelin and the LTX's are backordered for 10 weeks. He told me that in CA it's not a good seller and will most likely stop selling them. There is a different Michelin that will be released but that's TBD.
I had to suck it up and buy the Bridgestone Ecopia's. Having had the Michelin's for 30,000 we will see how the Bridgestone's do when they get installed.
Until then, I have a slow leak in my tire haha.
HE also told me that the H and the V are not just about different max speeds, it's the way they composite the tire so it's best to stick with that is supposed to go in the tires from factory. And he told me in if you don't like the tires, you can get refunded and do different tires within 30 days.
Anyways, the guy told me he called Michelin and the LTX's are backordered for 10 weeks. He told me that in CA it's not a good seller and will most likely stop selling them. There is a different Michelin that will be released but that's TBD.
I had to suck it up and buy the Bridgestone Ecopia's. Having had the Michelin's for 30,000 we will see how the Bridgestone's do when they get installed.
Until then, I have a slow leak in my tire haha.
HE also told me that the H and the V are not just about different max speeds, it's the way they composite the tire so it's best to stick with that is supposed to go in the tires from factory. And he told me in if you don't like the tires, you can get refunded and do different tires within 30 days.
12-19-18, 11:25 AM
#263
Lexus Test Driver
Toyo makes a tire in this size as well and probably one that I will consider when my Michelins are worn.
12-19-18, 01:37 PM
#264
Lexus Test Driver
thanks gadgetman! I believe it is V rated. THey had the LTX's in the H but he said he didn't recommend them. ALso, the Michelin's warranty is 60,000 but due to the CA hot weather climate none of the owners are getting nearly at that amount. I probably would have had to replace my tires no matter what at 40,000.
12-19-18, 03:40 PM
#265
I just spoke with another tire shop since Lexus has screwed me over on these tires. The dealer price on another set of these garbage Bridgestones was nearly $100 more per tire than Tire Rack or Discount. Anyway, this tire shop sells many brands of tires & he mentioned the Toyo Cent(something). His words “they have a 40,000 mile warranty, but most people are getting only 20,000 something out of them.” He also told me that my car was designed for V rated tires. H rated tires will work, but he said it won’t handle or ride nearly as well. We don’t run these luxury SUVs on the track, so why are they putting high speed rated tires on them? My Camaro has Z rated high performance tires, but we expect them to wear out fast. That car sticks to the road like glue! Anyway, I thought I would pass on what this shop told me. They are an independent tire distributer so they gain by selling me the tires I want & not what they want to sell me.
12-19-18, 10:43 PM
#266
.
Shaking my head. Do you really think I’m making this crap up?! Do you really think that a huge company like Toyota/Lexus wouldn’t cut quality to make a buck?! This is about making as much money as possible, not about making making things right for the customers. Lexus does come up with a spec with tire companies that don’t wear as long as tires purchased from a tire retailer. Tires are coded at the tire factories according to who is going to get them. Then the consumer grade tires go to tire distribution warehouses where they are sold to places like Discount Tire, Canadian Tire, Joe Schmoe Tire, or Firestone retail stores. Auto manufacturers get their cheaper cost tires that go to the assembly plants. Those tires either have a special number or letter or they are missing a letter or number that designates them as lower quality OEM tires, hence the no mileage warranty clauses. Lexus might pay $100-$150 per tire for OEM & we as customers, go to Discount Tire or a Firestone store & we pay $200-$225 for a longer lasting tire that looks nearly the same as the OEM tires. You then get more warranty (for whatever that’s worth).
I didn’t mix anything up. I have visited a Firestone store & I called Bridgestone (from the tire packet in the owner’s manual). Why can’t you understand these differences or why Bridgestone told me not to buy tires from a car dealer? A car dealer is NOT considered to be retail. They are OEM & represent the car factory. I’m not saying car dealer OEM tires are going to blow out & cause you to wreck, I’m just saying they are missing compounds that will make tires wear longer & they get them for a cheaper price because they won’t last as long. Why do suppose the US DOT came up with the Uniform Tire Grading System? It’s because all tires with the same name are not the same. What still baffles me is how OEM tires are marked say a 600 Treadwear & a customer gets an average of 20,000-30,000 miles out of them, yet a non-OEM tire is marked a 640 & customers get 50,000-60,000 miles out of them. The ratio of the numbers doesn’t add up. I’m trying to learn as much as I can about this as I was like you & didn’t know any of this. Many are years ago, I had my OEM Goodyear tires recalled. I didn’t have any problems, but I was able to upgrade to much better tires. The only other tire issues I’ve had are the junk Toyos that Toyota had on my Tundra. I replaced them with non-OEM Yokahama tires & they lasted 60,000 miles. The Toyos would have maybe lasted 15,000 if the belts hadn’t been separated inside them. They were absolute junk. I took them to two Toyota dealers & a tire shop & they all agreed they were crap.
So if you don’t believe me, call the number in your book. Go to your local Bridgestone or Michelin dealer & ask them to show you the differences. That’s what I did. Firestone showed me the coding on their non-OEM tires vs. my loaner’s lack of a code on the same brand tire. I’m not perfect & I make mistakes, but I assure you I’m not making this stuff up. I was a quality manager for many years & I knew what grades of product I could get in bulk vs. buying straight from a retail outlet.
Shaking my head. Do you really think I’m making this crap up?! Do you really think that a huge company like Toyota/Lexus wouldn’t cut quality to make a buck?! This is about making as much money as possible, not about making making things right for the customers. Lexus does come up with a spec with tire companies that don’t wear as long as tires purchased from a tire retailer. Tires are coded at the tire factories according to who is going to get them. Then the consumer grade tires go to tire distribution warehouses where they are sold to places like Discount Tire, Canadian Tire, Joe Schmoe Tire, or Firestone retail stores. Auto manufacturers get their cheaper cost tires that go to the assembly plants. Those tires either have a special number or letter or they are missing a letter or number that designates them as lower quality OEM tires, hence the no mileage warranty clauses. Lexus might pay $100-$150 per tire for OEM & we as customers, go to Discount Tire or a Firestone store & we pay $200-$225 for a longer lasting tire that looks nearly the same as the OEM tires. You then get more warranty (for whatever that’s worth).
I didn’t mix anything up. I have visited a Firestone store & I called Bridgestone (from the tire packet in the owner’s manual). Why can’t you understand these differences or why Bridgestone told me not to buy tires from a car dealer? A car dealer is NOT considered to be retail. They are OEM & represent the car factory. I’m not saying car dealer OEM tires are going to blow out & cause you to wreck, I’m just saying they are missing compounds that will make tires wear longer & they get them for a cheaper price because they won’t last as long. Why do suppose the US DOT came up with the Uniform Tire Grading System? It’s because all tires with the same name are not the same. What still baffles me is how OEM tires are marked say a 600 Treadwear & a customer gets an average of 20,000-30,000 miles out of them, yet a non-OEM tire is marked a 640 & customers get 50,000-60,000 miles out of them. The ratio of the numbers doesn’t add up. I’m trying to learn as much as I can about this as I was like you & didn’t know any of this. Many are years ago, I had my OEM Goodyear tires recalled. I didn’t have any problems, but I was able to upgrade to much better tires. The only other tire issues I’ve had are the junk Toyos that Toyota had on my Tundra. I replaced them with non-OEM Yokahama tires & they lasted 60,000 miles. The Toyos would have maybe lasted 15,000 if the belts hadn’t been separated inside them. They were absolute junk. I took them to two Toyota dealers & a tire shop & they all agreed they were crap.
So if you don’t believe me, call the number in your book. Go to your local Bridgestone or Michelin dealer & ask them to show you the differences. That’s what I did. Firestone showed me the coding on their non-OEM tires vs. my loaner’s lack of a code on the same brand tire. I’m not perfect & I make mistakes, but I assure you I’m not making this stuff up. I was a quality manager for many years & I knew what grades of product I could get in bulk vs. buying straight from a retail outlet.
When talking about the Michelin Premier LTX, every single store has the V-rated tires with the treadwear warranty. I don't recall having treadwear warranty on the LTX on my old RX, but it's possible Michelin might be more forgiving if you were to bring up the treadwear issue with them. However, as I mentioned earlier, I find the warranty to be next to useless as you'll never get anywhere near the 2/32" depth required to apply for the warranty without putting your life in danger.
Yes, I do know about the UTQG ratings as I've done plenty of research on tires in the past. They're basically useless if you're comparing treadwear between different tire companies. Each tire company uses their own reference tire for the base 100 rating, so a 600 tread (6x the life of the reference tire) for Bridgestone will have a completely different meaning to a Yokohama with the same 600 rating. Not to mention those ratings are extrapolated from limited testing, so there's no guarantee you'll get 10k miles more on a 700 vs 600. Like the treadwear warranty, it's only useful as a guideline as to which one has the better possibility of lasting longer. There's tons more factors that decide how long your tires can last -- heat is a killer (as mentioned in multiple posts), plus pavement surface material, plus how you drive in general.
OEM tires (or tire models selected by the car makers) typically get a bad rap because they're selected for specific features, and that the customer doesn't have a choice in the matter. In most cases, it's to get low rolling resistance so they can get better mpg (pretty much what the Ecopias were designed for). Other performance factors usually get sacrificed. It's not about Lexus screwing you over. If you were to get the same model of the Ecopias (but not OEM), chances are, the performance and mileage you get will be nearly identical. The only problem of course is that there's not a lot of info out there on people buying the same model of the tires and comparing to the factory-installed ones. You don't often see people owning the same car for more than the lifetime of two tires, so who can really say if there's a real difference between OEM and non-OEM tires? Most issues with tires manifest itself after extended driving, and if you had a bad experience with the OEM tires, I'm pretty sure you won't be hurrying to get the same tires (OEM or not) when it comes time to replace them.
Last edited by kolokmee; 12-19-18 at 11:03 PM.
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Cocal (12-20-18)
12-20-18, 06:16 AM
#267
Lexus Test Driver
I just spoke with another tire shop since Lexus has screwed me over on these tires. The dealer price on another set of these garbage Bridgestones was nearly $100 more per tire than Tire Rack or Discount. Anyway, this tire shop sells many brands of tires & he mentioned the Toyo Cent(something). His words “they have a 40,000 mile warranty, but most people are getting only 20,000 something out of them.” He also told me that my car was designed for V rated tires. H rated tires will work, but he said it won’t handle or ride nearly as well. We don’t run these luxury SUVs on the track, so why are they putting high speed rated tires on them? My Camaro has Z rated high performance tires, but we expect them to wear out fast. That car sticks to the road like glue! Anyway, I thought I would pass on what this shop told me. They are an independent tire distributer so they gain by selling me the tires I want & not what they want to sell me.
12-20-18, 10:12 AM
#268
Racer
I guess the old "YMMV" applies here! My 2010 RAV4 V6 came with OEM Toyo Open Countrys. They lasted about 30k when I couldn't stand them anymore. Rode like they were made of cement and noisy as heck. Replaced with Michelin Defenders and couldn't be happier. Of course the Toyos were 2010 versions, so don't know about today.
12-20-18, 10:14 AM
#269
Racer
thanks gadgetman! I believe it is V rated. THey had the LTX's in the H but he said he didn't recommend them. ALso, the Michelin's warranty is 60,000 but due to the CA hot weather climate none of the owners are getting nearly at that amount. I probably would have had to replace my tires no matter what at 40,000.
12-20-18, 11:24 AM
#270
Wish in one hand & you-know-what in the other...