OEM Michelin, OEM Bridgestone Vs Other (merged threads)
06-18-19, 06:52 PM
#391
Pole Position
Yes, THAT much of a difference!! The Ecopias started out OK, but by 10,000 miles, they were getting noisy. At 15,000 they would squeal in corners & by 20,000 miles they were hydroplaning bad & sounded like truck tires. I had them replaced with the Pirellis at 22,000. I’ve had decent luck with Bridgestone in the past, but the Ecopias are about the crappiest tires I ever owned on any vehicle. I didn’t go with the Michelin’s because many folks reported they were worn out in 25,000 - 30,000 miles. That’s horrible for a luxury car tire. If you notice, Ford isn’t using much Bridgestone/Firestone on their SUVs. They use the Pirelli Scorpions. I went down a rating & it greatly increased the ride quality. You can go up or down one rating usually, without any negative effects. I went from a Z to a V rating & they are GUARANTEED for more than 50,000 miles. Don’t set your heart on the Michelin just yet. Check out Continental, Goodyear & Yokahoma also. I have the 450h. The F-Sport has a little stiffer suspension over the regular 450h & 350. The Ecopias are pure junk. Look at the ratings for the exact tire size you need & see what buyers & testers are saying. The Michelin’s are better than the Ecopias, but not greatly so.
“If more spirited handling performance is what you look for in a tire without sacrificing treadlife, the Pirelli Scorpion Verde All Season Plus is your best choice in our opinion. If you put more of a premium on a smooth, comfortable and quiet ride, we would say the Michelin Premier LTX would be the tire of choice.”
I honestly only want a softer riding tire so it seems Michelin would be better for me. I know for a fact in general pirelli makes tires usually aimed at handling and Michelin usually aimed for comfort mainly. How fast they wear out doesn’t matter to me either since I only do about 5,000 miles per year, sometimes less. I just want the tire that’s going to give the most comfort possible since I already have the stiff suspension from f sport. The regular rx definitely needs the sporty tires since the suspension is already so soft.
06-19-19, 07:31 AM
#392
Racer
My personal opinion is that I believe there's a marked difference between OEM and aftermarket tires of the same brand and model. My aftermarket Michelin Defenders on my RAV4 have 57k miles on them and 5/32nds tread depth. Still ride smooth and quiet. I will probably replace them at the end of this summer. Someone getting 25-30k out of the same tires either are poor drivers, car is out of alignment, incorrect air pressure or they are (most likely) a different tire.
jmho.
jmho.
06-19-19, 09:16 AM
#393
My personal opinion is that I believe there's a marked difference between OEM and aftermarket tires of the same brand and model. My aftermarket Michelin Defenders on my RAV4 have 57k miles on them and 5/32nds tread depth. Still ride smooth and quiet. I will probably replace them at the end of this summer. Someone getting 25-30k out of the same tires either are poor drivers, car is out of alignment, incorrect air pressure or they are (most likely) a different tire.
jmho.
jmho.
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gadgetman1 (06-19-19)
06-19-19, 09:17 AM
#394
Pole Position
My personal opinion is that I believe there's a marked difference between OEM and aftermarket tires of the same brand and model. My aftermarket Michelin Defenders on my RAV4 have 57k miles on them and 5/32nds tread depth. Still ride smooth and quiet. I will probably replace them at the end of this summer. Someone getting 25-30k out of the same tires either are poor drivers, car is out of alignment, incorrect air pressure or they are (most likely) a different tire.
jmho.
jmho.
06-19-19, 09:27 AM
#395
Pole Position
I have heard the premiers wear quickly especially for a Michelin. I wonder if that’s just the oem version or that tire in general wears faster. I don’t even care If it wears out in 20,000 miles as long as they are noticeably more comfortable over bumps and better riding overall then the Ecopias. If they don’t perform amazing I can’t imagine anyone would be happy with them considering they wear out so fast.
06-19-19, 09:30 AM
#396
Pole Position
As mentioned, the Pirelli Scorpion tires that I replaced the worn OEM Michelins with are wearing about the same. I'm at 30,000 miles (put them on at about 18,000 miles) and they are about half worn. I'll grant you that I replace tires at about 4 32/nds because I just don't like living in Pittsburgh (rain/hills/snow/ice) with tires that don't have big meat on the bone.
06-19-19, 09:39 AM
#397
Pole Position
As mentioned, the Pirelli Scorpion tires that I replaced the worn OEM Michelins with are wearing about the same. I'm at 30,000 miles (put them on at about 18,000 miles) and they are about half worn. I'll grant you that I replace tires at about 4 32/nds because I just don't like living in Pittsburgh (rain/hills/snow/ice) with tires that don't have big meat on the bone.
Do you notice a difference between the Michelin and pirellis when new? Is the Michelin better over bumps?
06-19-19, 10:16 AM
#398
Pole Position
Yea I never get more then 20k out a tire no matter what the rated mileage is. That’s living in NYC with these horrible roads. Yes they can go longer but who wants to ride a car with old tires. Changes everything.
Do you notice a difference between the Michelin and pirellis when new? Is the Michelin better over bumps?
Do you notice a difference between the Michelin and pirellis when new? Is the Michelin better over bumps?
06-19-19, 10:31 AM
#399
My personal opinion is that I believe there's a marked difference between OEM and aftermarket tires of the same brand and model. My aftermarket Michelin Defenders on my RAV4 have 57k miles on them and 5/32nds tread depth. Still ride smooth and quiet. I will probably replace them at the end of this summer. Someone getting 25-30k out of the same tires either are poor drivers, car is out of alignment, incorrect air pressure or they are (most likely) a different tire.
jmho.
jmho.
I’m actually very meticulous in maintaining my vehicles. My previous hot hatch car had Bridgestone high performance tires that were rated for 20,000 - 25,000 miles. I filled them with nitrogen & rotated them every 5,000 miles. I got over 30,000 miles out of them & replaced them with Michelin Pilot Sports until we traded the car. The Michelin tires were far superior to the Bridgestones in every category. Clearly, OEM tires are nearly the worst of the worst. When the Camaro SS tires wear out, I seriously doubt I will be buying another set of Goodyear Eagle F1 run flats. They are noisy & are terrible in the rain. I’m not a fan of run flats & I may convert to carrying a jack & spare (many cars now are coming without either). There are better tires on the market than the Ecopias & even the Michelin. We must shop for the best value for the money & NOT accept these mediocre tires from either brand. Had I known I would need to purchase a complete set of tires at 20,000 miles & Lexus could have cared less, I would have purchased another brand of vehicle. Toyota is no different. I had a Tundra that came with factory Toyos that were literally causing the truck to veer to the left & right unexpectedly, I had those junk Toyo tires replaced by 3,000 miles with Yokohama tires that lasted until 50,000 miles. Toyota wouldn’t help whatsoever, except to say that the Toyo tires were bad & it was up to us to deal with the tire company!
06-21-19, 07:33 PM
#400
That's most likely just due to the conditions, lots of stops, starts, tight corners (intersections), that's where the tires wear. I live in a 30,000 people town, much quieter, slower driving and then regularly drive 700 km on a freeway to Sydney and back so my mileage will be very large as the freeway driving won't cause much wear at all.
06-21-19, 08:03 PM
#401
I asked the tire shop that and they said it also has to do with the suspension so he said you can’t switch to H but I don’t think the dude knew what he was saying. I have to do more research on H vs V. Common sense would make you think the H would be softer since that’s rated for like 140 MPH vs V which is rated for higher speed. I googled pirelli scorpion vs Michelin premier and this is the first thing that came up:
The V rated tire has a firmer sidewall, allows higher speeds, also will assist slightly with handling. There is nothing wrong with putting H rated tires on unless you plan on driving at very high speeds above 140 when hot. I would assume you'll drive way under that and without the high temperatures anyway. You'll find Lexus put V's on as they would have to have tires rated for the speed the car can go. Even here in Australia where we have ridiculously tight laws in regards to wheels/tires you can put on going down to a H rating is legal so would be seen as safe. All things being equal the H will ride a little better then the V's due to that softer sidewall, not the bigger bumps maybe be you'd probably notice it's not quite a jiggly over the road separations/gaps.
Depending on the experience you've had with different tires over the years you may not really notice a difference, it's extremely complicated trying to compare one tire with another - one company's V tire could be softer then another company's H tire and then within each company's tire model range there could be differences again. It's not like buying a shirt where you try it on, see how it looks/feel and know that it's right for you or not, I guess the choice has to be made first with tires and then live with them. Asking people on here their experiences may help but these experiences can be subjective, some people feel things more then others.
My experience - I went with H rated tires a couple of months ago, feel a little more compliant over the rough stuff but it's not huge, handling "maybe" a little worse, hard to tell but really I don't drive hard much at all now, grown out of that and after a more relaxed drive. I bought Kumho KL33 tires, made for Luxury SUV's with a very quiet tread and they are quieter then the OEM tires for sure and a good ride. Someone on here said Kumho's were a third tier tire brand (or similar wording) and not worth touching, maybe they don't have the marketing or something over there but in Australia they are a popular brand and some models are used on some Mercedes Benz & BM's models here so can't be terrible. Anyway that's my two cents worth.
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ravenuer (06-22-19)
06-22-19, 03:43 PM
#402
Pole Position
One word for your tire guy.....CRAP
The V rated tire has a firmer sidewall, allows higher speeds, also will assist slightly with handling. There is nothing wrong with putting H rated tires on unless you plan on driving at very high speeds above 140 when hot. I would assume you'll drive way under that and without the high temperatures anyway. You'll find Lexus put V's on as they would have to have tires rated for the speed the car can go. Even here in Australia where we have ridiculously tight laws in regards to wheels/tires you can put on going down to a H rating is legal so would be seen as safe. All things being equal the H will ride a little better then the V's due to that softer sidewall, not the bigger bumps maybe be you'd probably notice it's not quite a jiggly over the road separations/gaps.
Depending on the experience you've had with different tires over the years you may not really notice a difference, it's extremely complicated trying to compare one tire with another - one company's V tire could be softer then another company's H tire and then within each company's tire model range there could be differences again. It's not like buying a shirt where you try it on, see how it looks/feel and know that it's right for you or not, I guess the choice has to be made first with tires and then live with them. Asking people on here their experiences may help but these experiences can be subjective, some people feel things more then others.
My experience - I went with H rated tires a couple of months ago, feel a little more compliant over the rough stuff but it's not huge, handling "maybe" a little worse, hard to tell but really I don't drive hard much at all now, grown out of that and after a more relaxed drive. I bought Kumho KL33 tires, made for Luxury SUV's with a very quiet tread and they are quieter then the OEM tires for sure and a good ride. Someone on here said Kumho's were a third tier tire brand (or similar wording) and not worth touching, maybe they don't have the marketing or something over there but in Australia they are a popular brand and some models are used on some Mercedes Benz & BM's models here so can't be terrible. Anyway that's my two cents worth.
The V rated tire has a firmer sidewall, allows higher speeds, also will assist slightly with handling. There is nothing wrong with putting H rated tires on unless you plan on driving at very high speeds above 140 when hot. I would assume you'll drive way under that and without the high temperatures anyway. You'll find Lexus put V's on as they would have to have tires rated for the speed the car can go. Even here in Australia where we have ridiculously tight laws in regards to wheels/tires you can put on going down to a H rating is legal so would be seen as safe. All things being equal the H will ride a little better then the V's due to that softer sidewall, not the bigger bumps maybe be you'd probably notice it's not quite a jiggly over the road separations/gaps.
Depending on the experience you've had with different tires over the years you may not really notice a difference, it's extremely complicated trying to compare one tire with another - one company's V tire could be softer then another company's H tire and then within each company's tire model range there could be differences again. It's not like buying a shirt where you try it on, see how it looks/feel and know that it's right for you or not, I guess the choice has to be made first with tires and then live with them. Asking people on here their experiences may help but these experiences can be subjective, some people feel things more then others.
My experience - I went with H rated tires a couple of months ago, feel a little more compliant over the rough stuff but it's not huge, handling "maybe" a little worse, hard to tell but really I don't drive hard much at all now, grown out of that and after a more relaxed drive. I bought Kumho KL33 tires, made for Luxury SUV's with a very quiet tread and they are quieter then the OEM tires for sure and a good ride. Someone on here said Kumho's were a third tier tire brand (or similar wording) and not worth touching, maybe they don't have the marketing or something over there but in Australia they are a popular brand and some models are used on some Mercedes Benz & BM's models here so can't be terrible. Anyway that's my two cents worth.
06-25-19, 06:57 PM
#403
Pole Position
He was just the front desk guy lol. I had a feeling V is a harder rubber since it’s meant for higher speeds. I have the f sport so I could use a slightly softer ride, I feel every bump with these ecopias and the firm f sport suspension. Maybe I will try H rated, might just go with Michelin premiers or latitude HP (seems it’s michelins best tire for SUV).
06-26-19, 04:44 AM
#404
Here it is, the official answer regarding differences between tires on a vehicle coming from the factory vs. buying aftermarket tires. According to Consumer Reports, there can be huge differences. Don’t take my word for it, watch the video at 16:10 for CR Car Talk Q&A:
06-29-19, 01:34 AM
#405
Yep, I tried telling numerous people this on here months ago, nobody believed me, I was shouted down as some kind of idiot. There's big dollars involved in car manufacture and the smallest savings in costs are always used to get that bigger bottom line.
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Cocal (06-29-19)