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I guess you're right. Lexus is not an Audi competitor. Maybe *I am* brainwashed by the Lexus marketing, trying to position the brand against the Germans.
I saw a huge billboard yesterday on the 405 showing an GS and it said "What's the German for move over?". And I bit
They're certainly competitors, in fact Lexus outsells Audi in the U.S. Just because two companies compete doesn't mean that they go about designing a vehicle from the same philosophy. An Audi and a Lexus are very different. Audi puts more emphasis on technology than Lexus does, Lexus puts more emphasis on value and reliability than Audi. Neither approach is right or wrong.
If you want a car from a carmaker who focuses more on technology, buy an Audi.
All I can say about Audi is "once bitten, twice shy". My experience with Audi doesn't detract from their tech, styling or handling. I loved my Audi, and I hated my Audi, but I still owned it for 7 years. I always keep my receipts and I bought that car twice when adding up the repairs (purchased it as a 4 year lease return). If I were going to get an Audi again, it would only be a lease and/or otherwise unload it once the warranty expires. I cannot say the same for my past Toyota/Lexus products. That doesn't mean I won't look at Audi or other European products, only that I would would tread carefully and I certainly wouldn't put them on a pedestal because they have more gadgets to break in their interiors.
Just my .02 cents worth from my Audi experience. (And there is probably change left over) I am not trying to discourage Audi buyers as there is much to like, but there will be more repair expenses and aggravation with Audi, however the Audi may be more fun to drive - and perhaps have more gadgets.
Last edited by TechNut; 05-16-15 at 08:16 PM.
Reason: spelling
By the same rationale, an '83 Civic owner is luckier than you because his car is ... less complex, right? I guess the luckiest man in the world is the one that takes the bus.
Jumping to conclusions much? I said "more complex Q7". That's not going to do its reliability any good, it sucks as it is
Also, you say the Q7 is faster, that's not strictly true. Yes the 0-60 time of the RX is slower than the current Q7 TDI but, seen as though my brother in law has a Q7 and since we've done a drag between my RX450h and his Q7, I feel I can summarise the experience.
The Q7 jumps off the line quick, runs out of puff towards the top end and RX catches up and gains a lead until 124mph or so when it hits top speed. The 450h is deceptively quick in Sport Mode. Without knowing the specs on the new one, ie weight, horsepower and motor specification it's too soon to come to any conclusions
I do like the clean, modern interior of the Q7, but I have to agree with others saying that it doesn't compete with the RX. You have to compare the RX interior to the Q5 interior, which I think is awful and dated especially compared to the Lexus.
The new RX's interior is a huge improvement over the current gen RX. Seems much more refined with better materials.
Things I like: more soft touch and leather used, analog clock, better location of shift ****, fancy curved wood or aluminum trim on center console, more stylish seats.
A few things I don't like: tablet-like fixed screen sitting on dash, center portion with buttons could've been better, use of silver painted plastic trim (wish Lexus would just use aluminum; Hyundai uses aluminum to outline their beautiful wood trim in the Genesis) throughout dash.
In terms of tech, Lexus has fallen behind the Germans. The German infotainment systems are much fancier and more intuitive. They also have had a lot of safety tech for a few years now. Lexus was sort of ahead when they released the previous gen LS, with its fancy cruise control, pre-collision system, and self-parking. Almost feels like Lexus stopped innovating and is now copying/playing catchup on tech.
I would never buy an Audi again due to my past experiences, and the only thing keeping me from leasing one is their horrible lease rates. I definitely have an appreciation for their innovation and design, but I think I'll stick to Lexus for now.
I'd say it's unfair to say Lexus is behind on tech. They do a lot of te sting, everything has got to be reliable.
It's also possible than Lexus are currently trialing new tech as we speak - perhaps it's hydrogen, perhaps it's a new gearbox for the hybrids, perhaps it's a new engine lineup? Practically anything could be going on over in Japan, maybe nuclear powered cars or something
They are behind on tech, always have been. But, the flipside is more established tech means fewer problems, which is why I think they don't push the envelope. Some of these tech issues KILL these cars IQS ratings, etc.
They are behind on tech, always have been. But, the flipside is more established tech means fewer problems, which is why I think they don't push the envelope. Some of these tech issues KILL these cars IQS ratings, etc.
But Lexus was the first to introduce automatic parking as seen in the 2006 LS. It wasn't the easiest system to use and it seems like a failure since it isn't offered on any of the current lineup. They could've refined it and made it easier to use like Ford's system, but they just abandoned it.
I hope they introduce some new and reliable tech in the RX and the rest of the lineup. It would be cool if they had more auto-braking features for when you might hit a car (forward, reverse, and changing lanes), semi-autonomous driving for traffic jams, better HUD, and reintroduce self-park (reverse and parallel).
You might say..."learn how to drive, then you don't need this stuff", but you are starting to see these safety features show up on cheaper cars now and this stuff is what people expect in luxury cars.
But Lexus was the first to introduce automatic parking as seen in the 2006 LS. It wasn't the easiest system to use and it seems like a failure since it isn't offered on any of the current lineup. They could've refined it and made it easier to use like Ford's system, but they just abandoned it.
Thats one thing. One thing doesn't change the fact that throughout their history they have never been on the forefront of technology. Its just not their focus.
Did you see the 3D nav, showing mountains, lakes, buildings, etc? The huge mousepad with hand writing recognition? What about the instrument cluster, with the full LCD TFT mirroring the Nav, completely re-configurable? Adaptive air suspension?
Not so sure about that either. On top of offering everything the RX offers, here are a few things that are not even on the drawing board at Lexus HQ:
- Ability to steer around obstacles in the road and brake the car if you make a left turn that will result in a collision with oncoming traffic.
- Brake-based torque vectoring.
- Traffic Jam Assist, which can essentially drive the Q7 on the highway at speeds of up to 40 mph
- A trailer assistant that will back up and steer the trailer for you
Audi has nothing like the 450h because it doesn't need to. The diesel engines are a better option: good mileage, huge torque, much faster, more fun. The hybrid sells only in US because ppl are scared of diesels for some weird reason.
Size doesn't really matter when you have two screens. And guess what: you can do whatever you want while, gasp, driving.
And the RX dash leather comes free?
Let's now transform this into a German vs Japanese, because other than on daring exterior, price (TBD) and reliability (TBD), the 4th gen RX doesn't compete very well with the new entries from Audi and Volvo.
Like I said in the begging, most prolly I'll lease the 16 RX first thing. But that doesn't stop me from ranting and wondering if this is the best Lexus could do.
huh?
Most of the information you wrote here is simply false.
1. RX450h is technically superior to any Audi diesel. VW group has tried to make hybrids but their hybrids are technically inferior. It is pretty simple.
2. Lexus Safety Sense is superior to Audi's auto-brake systems. It seems you have gone to read their PR's but their system is outdated, and one of the worst in the car world.
3. RX radar cruise control will speed up and down at any speed, same as auto braking. There is no limit as in Audi. I understand that Lexus should use more acronyms for their system so it looks more impressive.
4. RX has adaptive suspension.
5. All versions of RX shown so far have had leather dash. none of the Q7's I saw on PR sidtes had leather dash.
Audi map screen between the steering is nice, but its pop-up nav is significantly smaller than RX's... and RX F-Sport instruments are also very nice. I doubt you will be watching you map info between your steering wheel.
There is no extra tech in Audi at all... new RX has everything that competition has and some of its tech is way superior at normal prices... especially safety auto-drive tech as well as hybrid model.
Now, old RX wasnt anywhere as advanced... but new one is.
But Lexus was the first to introduce automatic parking as seen in the 2006 LS. It wasn't the easiest system to use and it seems like a failure since it isn't offered on any of the current lineup. They could've refined it and made it easier to use like Ford's system, but they just abandoned it.
I hope they introduce some new and reliable tech in the RX and the rest of the lineup. It would be cool if they had more auto-braking features for when you might hit a car (forward, reverse, and changing lanes), semi-autonomous driving for traffic jams, better HUD, and reintroduce self-park (reverse and parallel).
You might say..."learn how to drive, then you don't need this stuff", but you are starting to see these safety features show up on cheaper cars now and this stuff is what people expect in luxury cars.
new RX has new Safety Sense system which works at any speed, first one of its kind. It will speed/slow in traffic as well, at any speed. It also has special features so you wont hit anyone when parking or if you hit gas pedal instead of brake pedal in car lot, it will stop instead of speeding up. It also recognizes pedestrians. It will let you know if traffic has moved ahead (if you dont have radar cruise on). Audi has not announced anything like this, even if their PR is full of features, it does not seem anywhere as advanced and seems to be limited by speed. Important part about auto-brake tech is what speeds it works on, what kind of obstacles it recognizes and how fast it brakes. This way you can see how good its sensors and computers are. Rest is just PR crap.
It also has new 360 panoramic monitors for parking... it has panoramic roof that slides... it has wide color hud with nav, rear seats are electrically powered as well as rear doors with proximity sensors, adaptive suspension from GS, new infotainment system with 12.3" screen and highres (better than GS), huge 2nd row dual monitors, safety sense will brake, accelerate, steer at any speeds, all LED lighting with very nice brand new adaptive High Beam System. RX F-Sport will have active stabilizer system in addition to adaptive suspension.
It is by far the most innovative RX ever that introduces a lot of new technologies at Lexus, something that previously was done with LS.
And we still did not hear about everything that RX will offer. Interior wise we know about Yamaha laser cut wood, leather dash, leather around transmission tunnel, wireless charging. We dont know all about new high-res Mark Levinson system yet.
So when it comes to the features, it is loaded and its safety sense + system is world leading system right now.
Lots of cool tech but:
a. Auto braking in Audi seems to be very limited - braking works only up to 40mph, and it can fully brake at speeds up to 19mph. This is their "City brake" system thats standard on SE package.
b. Other safety tech is various packages that cost up to $10k extra... tech package thats $4.5k includes a lot of safety tech but absolutely no mention of improvement to autobraking. Considering in how much detail everything is explained, i dont think thats an accident - it seems Audi does not have high speed autobrake system.
On the other hand, RX's Safety Sense+ works at all speeds, and has stronger speed lowering (25mph vs 18mph). Up to 40mph partial braking is old school in 2015/2016, lower than mediocre system in NX today... heck it is worse than system that is being installed in Toyota's for $350 this summer.
Another big point for Safety Sense+ is that it will cost $630 - so not only much more advanced technology, but 5x-8x cheaper. Not many people will load up Audi with $10k worth of safety tech, especially when basic functionality such as auto-brake is so limited, but Safety Sense+ with price of $630 will likely be installed on every RX.
Quote from Audi Q7 PDF:
Audi Pre-sense city – the system uses the camera
located on the front rear view mirror to detect
vehicles and pedestrians in front. If an imminent
collision is detected, the system warns the driver,
tightens the belts and closes the windows. Subject to certain system limits, up to speeds of
approximately 19mph the system may initiate
emergency braking application and if possible
prevent the collision.
At speeds up to approximately 40mph the speed
can be reduced up to 18mph to minimise the
severity of the accident.
Please note that the system works only within
system limits and can support the driver.
However the driver remains responsible for
driving the vehicle and is required to be attentive.
Even the cheapest Toyota Safety package at $350 uses both radar and camera for auto-braking. Lexus systems use better radar and cpu that can auto-brake at all speeds.
Its also worth mentioning that in the Audi, there is a long list of what you "dont" get which always puts me off.
With my current RX450h F Sport, I only had to option the ML and Metallic paint. Everything else including sat nav, HUD etc etc was fitted as standard.
I did look at the Previous gen Q7 and it was on the top of my list as I was originally going to buy a car in early 2012 when I saw the RX ad on TV and delayed until June. The Q7 needed £10k worth of options adding to it to be in the same ballpark as the RX in terms of spec.
There are certain things which annoy me about Audi's though:
1) their tech may be good but its not backed up by reliability
2) Electrical gremlins all over the place - that includes burnt out light bulbs etc
3) Their leather quality is inferior to Lexus leather. Lexus use soft, supple leather which feels expensive. Although the Audi leather is better than Merc and BMW, i dont personally think its a patch on Lexus leather.
4) Audi paint quality sucks - orange peel all over (being an OCD detailer, itd take the **** for me to wetsand the whole car). Didnt need to do this on the Lexus
I have been trying to get a thread about feature comparison between Q7, GLe, and X5 for forever...great commentary so far. Anyway here's a side-by-side comparison of professional photos. Surprising that a drivers view picture hasn't been released for the RX to my knowledge.
The simple lines on the dash of the Q7 add elegance however that pop-tart screen looks really obtrusive compared to the RX.
Analog clock looks classier but the shaved steering wheel does look futuristic. Looks aside, I doubt anyone has put together a feature comparison list yet.
Even though the new RX interior is an improvement and looks nice, the upper part of it seems to have too many tiers which makes it look busy. I think the new Volvo XC90 interior is the best in the segment. Clean lines and minimalistic look, and no weird screen placement on the top of dash. Look at the detail in the crystal gear ****, metal speaker grilles, how the aluminum trim on the door and top part of door connects to the dash (Lexus doesn't seem to know how to do this very cleanly in any recent car), and stitching on the top of dash. Less buttons and ***** facilitates a cleaner look, but can hamper functionality; Volvo has solved this by using a very responsive touchscreen. I'm not a big fan of touchscreens due to fingerprints so it would've been nice if they at least had climate *****/buttons too. Also, looks like better materials used throughout than both the Audi and Lexus. The Audi Q7 interior is nice too, but very busy. Audi also tends to skimp on wrapping the top of their dash with leather, and use a molded rubbery plastic instead, which detracts a bit of luxury.
Even though the new RX interior is an improvement and looks nice, the upper part of it seems to have too many tiers which makes it look busy. I think the new Volvo XC90 interior is the best in the segment. Clean lines and minimalistic look, and no weird screen placement on the top of dash. Look at the detail in the crystal gear ****, metal speaker grilles, how the aluminum trim on the door and top part of door connects to the dash (Lexus doesn't seem to know how to do this very cleanly in any recent car), and stitching on the top of dash. Less buttons and ***** facilitates a cleaner look, but can hamper functionality; Volvo has solved this by using a very responsive touchscreen. I'm not a big fan of touchscreens due to fingerprints so it would've been nice if they at least had climate *****/buttons too. Also, looks like better materials used throughout than both the Audi and Lexus. The Audi Q7 interior is nice too, but very busy. Audi also tends to skimp on wrapping the top of their dash with leather, and use a molded rubbery plastic instead, which detracts a bit of luxury.
Again, much more expensive than the RX with the same option list. Engines aren't great either - a 4 pot in an SUV is a no-no. Power wise not bad but I think the engine noise is a huge distraction.
Back to the Q7 -
Things is doesnt come with:
1) Door pull handles and armrests are not leather (£1500 option)
2) HUD or 12.3" screen between the speedo gauges, or High beam assist (£1950 option)
3) Adaptive air suspension, lane change assist or pre sense (£2655 option)
4) Double glazing windows with privacy glass which is standard on RX (£525 option)
5) Electric folding mirrors, heated, auto dimming and memory (£200 option)
6) Memory driver seat (£350 option)
7) Panoramic sunroof (£1700 option) wtf? lol Lexus charges £900 for this
8) Spare wheel (£250 option)
9) Sun blinds for rear (£280 option)
10) Electric steering column (£400 option) - i thought this would be standard on luxury cars
11) Heated front and rear seats (new rx has this) - £400 option
12) Reversing camera (£500) option
13) Rear side airbags (again Lexus has had this for years) - £350 option
14) Keyless go (£950 option)
15) Bose surround (£1100 option) - Mark Levinson in RX costs £900
Audi Q7 3.0l (272hp) TDI S-line grand total - a whopping £68k!!!!!
My RX450h F-Sport was £53,650 with ML optioned! I cant see the new RX price rising much. Maybe £58k tops fully optioned. Thats a massive £10k difference!
05-15-15, 05:42 PM
) I am not trying to discourage Audi buyers as there is much to like, but there will be more repair expenses and aggravation with Audi, however the Audi may be more fun to drive - and perhaps have more gadgets.
