hiroito

Johnny

BMW SUVs are made in the US.
Lexus RX Hybrid and Sport editions are made in Japan.
Other RX versions are mostly made in Canada.
The RX and other Lexus products retain their value much better than the BMW counterparts.
Lexuss reliability and low maintenance costs are lower than BMW. (see JD Power ratings)
BMWs parts are prohibitively expensive, which may explain why owners rarely wander beyond their warranties.
Quality and finish is superior on equivalent Lexus models, iow value for your hard-earned dollars.

SW17LS

If you're leasing or staying within the warranty, none of this matters. BMW also includes all scheduled maintenance within the warranty period, which is very attractive for a lease.

This unfortunately I can no longer agree with. The new X5 exudes quality from every panel. It blows the 3RX out of the water in that department, and gives my LS a run for its money. The leather, for instance in the X5 is better than the leather in my LS. I have a friend with an X5 with the nappa package and the leather dash...the interior is incredible, the highest quality leather I've ever seen on something south of $100k. Paint quality is great, exterior trim quality is great.

I would not even put the 3RX and the X5 in the same league. We'll see about the 4RX.

rayaans

This is specifically about the 4RX though. In terms exterior design, it blows the BMW out of the water.

I disagree with the leather. It's no better than the Lexus leather which is very high quality anyway.

It's worth noting that options on the X5 are very expensive and the car will easily hit £6-10k more for an equivalent spec.

I also disagree about paint quality. I feel BMW has the worst paint on any premium vehicle after Mercedes. The BMWs I've worked on, 2013 and newer all have insane orange peel. Wet sanding was needed on all panels to bring it up to Lexus quality. Lexus paint is wet sanded from factory so I've never needed to do this on most Lexus vehicles apart from poor repair jobs

SW17LS

Styling is subjective. I haven't seen a 4RX in person, so I can't compare them, but the latest X5 is a very good looking vehicle IMHO.

This is just flat out wrong. I'm sorry, but its really not one of those "up to personal tastes" things, quality is quality, and that nappa leather in his X5 is incredibly high quality, its way higher quality than the leather in my LS which is better than the leather in a 3RX. Even the optional semi-aniline leather I had in my GS and is available in the LS is nowhere near as high quality as the nappa leather in the X5. Its furniture, clothing quality leather.

If we're talking about the base dakota leather in the X5, that may be another story, its different, very "tough", but still very high quality.

Remember, we're talking about the 3RX. Haven't seen a 4RX in person to compare.

I agree.

No orange peel on these cars I've seen. The paint on my LS is outstanding, but the paint on every other Lexus vehicle I've had or seen is just okay.

BertL

FWIW, I'm a real stickler for paint quality since I am the only person that hand-washes and details my rides. IIRC there have been 2, no -- make that 3, instances in the last 20+ years any of my rides have been washed by someone else, or heaven-forbid, put through an automated wash of some sort.
...I'll just add that BMW may include "standard maintenance" with their warranty, but from my 335i experience, my ride was in the shop and more unreliable than any other vehicle I've owned in my life -- bar none. A class action suit was closed on 335i's several months after I sold it, wherein I could have received a paltry $50 for all the times I put up with the car in limp mode for literally hours multiple times trying to get home, if I wanted to make copies of all the receipts that I had already given to the new owner.

As you say on leather quality, we'll have to see what the 4th Gen RX is like, but my 2013 RX with the Luxury Pkg is more than subtle and surpasses my expectation in every way. My former BMW 335i which also had the upgraded highest quality leather available, was not even a close match how it felt. While my 2014 MBZ also has upgraded and the best leather that I could order, it reminds me much more of my RX300 and the somewhat hard leather it had visually and to the touch -- vs. the much softer and elegant parchment leather in my 2013 RX450h.

SW17LS

Your 335 didn't have a Napa leather option. The leather in your RX isn't anywhere close to this leather in quality.

rayaans

Nappa leather costs an extra £1.3k here in the UK. By no means is that an insignificant amount of money compared to Lexus leather (which may I add is a fat £0). The Dakota leather is nowhere near the same quality as Lexus leather, its rock solid, feels like Artico Mercedes, cheap stuff.

Every BMW ive seen has orange peel on 2 panels or more, guaranteed.

Also, I should add that this a 4RX section, therefore, no point comparing 3RX and the X5 which is a newer vehicle anyway, the 3RX has been going since 2009 with limited updates whereas the X5 is a lot newer.

I also find it rather crap that BMW charge for driver and passenger lumbar support, tinted windows, HUD, rear view camera etc etc etc. It all gets a bit boring, especially when my new RX450h F-Sport cost £54k and only needed the ML adding to it. An X5 30d MSport to a similar spec is £64k which is a huge £10k difference.

Its also worth noting that there wont be additional features available on the X5 when the new RX is out which can be optioned with the 360 degree camera and other availabilities.

The Lexus LS has been going since 2007, its to be expected that the quality of leather may not be as good as nappa leather. But even then, its free lol

Its almost like saying - yeah the Rolls Royce costs more but its got better leather quality than the X5. Two completely differentprice brackets

SW17LS

Yeah it costs more here too. But, Lexus has leather options that cost more...and they aren't as nice. $1,500 as an option to an already $50,000+ car is not huge to someone that values that quality.

Its a luxury car, nothing wrong with adding options for better materials for people that want that.

As for the base Lexus leather being better than the Dakota leather, I disagree. The base Lexus leather is fairly cheap feeling IMHO, including whats in my LS. The Dakota leather isn't soft feeling, but it feels thick and high quality. The leather in my Kia Sedona minivan is Nappa, and is about equivalent to the semi-aniline leather Lexus offers, and is better than the base leather in my LS and certainly in the 3RX. Lexus needs to do better in this department. Napa leather isn't even the best leather available on a Jeep Grand Cherokee, we need options for higher quality leather in Lexus vehicles.

As have most Lexus vehicles I've seen and owned. Orange peel is going to be present in a modern paint job unless its hand sanded. Lexus only offers hand sanded paint on the LS. Lexus paint is thin and chips easily, BMW paint seems more robust.

Few of us have seen and none have sat in or driven a 4RX, so we really can't make comparisons without bringing the 3RX into the discussion.

BMWs are a lot more expensive, but compared to a 3RX the X5 is a lot more vehicle. I would pay $10k for an X5 over your RX any day of the week. Some things cost more because they're worth more. Now if you look at say a 5 Series vs a GS, I think the 5 costs more and isn't worth more, but the X5 is.

I truly hope that the 4RX does compete. The pictures look very promising. You yourself though complained about price hikes...if its going to compete its going to get more expensive. With the NX there now it can.

The LS was totally overhauled in 2013. All the materials, finished, etc were redone at that time. The leather should be better, and it was better in the past. The LS has optional semi-aniline leather too, but its nowhere near as good as the Napa leather available on lower cost BMWs. This is a shame on Lexus here.

LOL, hardly. The X5 and the RX are in the same market segment. With higher options the X5 is significantly more expensive, but the difference is nowhere near a Rolls Royce and an X5. The X5 can be had with much greater features and materials than the X5, its not fair to compare those packages to the RX. All in all, optioned similarly the X5 is $8-10k more than an RX. I'm a huge Lexus fan, obviously, but I call it like I see it...the X5 is a superior vehicle and it justifiably costs more.

The 4RX looks like it may bridge some of that gap, in pictures the materials and finishes look very good. We'll see.

rayaans

I wouldnt pay more for an X5. Id get perhaps better handling but a worse ride with runflats and an engine which runs on the devils fuel :O

I dont know what type of leather you get there but I do have a couple of friends with BMW's and Dakota Leather in the 5 series which i feel is inferior to the leather on my RX. Mine is very soft and does not feel cheap. We also dont get any leather "upgrades".

£10k is a huge amount of money, especially for someone paying 45% tax lol

dchar

Totally agree that BMW Dakota leather sucks. I've owned a car in the past with it and my cousin is a BMW fan so he always has a new one with Dakota leather. It's hard, unrefined, and not smooth. The only thing good about it is that it is very durable (no creases after 40K miles).
The base leather in Lexus is way better than BMW Dakota leather. Good balance between refinement and durable.

What I love about Lexus is the offering of ventilated seats. A lot of German manufacturers just started putting them on their lineup, but usually it's an expensive option or package.

Agree that Lexus paint look in general is better than BMW. I've also seen orange peel on BMW, and maybe they have more layers making it more durable. Don't see orange peel on Lexus lineup.

jjl12

Just leased a '15 X5 35i M Sport w Mocha Nappa leather interior package. The leather, fit and finish and paint are all flawless, and I could not be more impressed with the car, it drives incredibly well and is very versatile, i have 19' all season Pirelli Scorpions on mine. Got referred to a salesperson who gave me a great deal, resale value is irrelevant. All maintenance is paid for during the life of the lease. And styling is subjective, but the 4RX is over the top in my opinion, it makes more of a statement than I want to make. The X5's styling is understated, and with the M Sport package, just aggressive enough for me. I took a look at the 4RX at the NYIAC and decided it was a pass, sorry.

SW17LS

Have you driven a current X5? I actually think they ride better, at least as well as the RX, certainly better than an F Sport RX despite the runflats. I was very surprised by how well they ride.

Its not really a handling biased vehicle anymore, the previous X5 was but the new one is a very refined smooth riding, quiet vehicle.

You may have the semi-aniline leather as standard...

rayaans

My colleague owns one. Rides like nails on M-Sport suspension with 20" wheels on.

I also thought it was rather noisy inside.

SW17LS

That's an M Sport with 20s. Try a luxury line with 19s or the base car with 18s, they ride very well and are very quiet.