2016 Lexus RX revealed (pics page 35)
#751
Lexus Fanatic
Making an RX look rugged like a Jeep would be ridiculous. Its a street vehicle, and I applaud them for not pretending it isn't. If you want a vehicle that looks like a Jeep...buy a Jeep...I did!
The conversation seems to have migrated to RWD vs. FWD. I really don't see what's so great about RWD in a SUV. For me, AWD is superior and it doesn't make sense for Lexus to develop a RWD SUV.
Buick and Lexus...thats it for FWD based vehicles in this class. Not the company Lexus needs to be keeping.
Originally Posted by spwolf
more and more vehicles from MB and BMW are FWD
FWD is a value power train...thats why overwhelmingly all premium vehicles are RWD. Audis sold in the US are rear biased AWD, and when they go from a FWD car to RWD, they turn the engine the right way...very unique. Why is a Rolls Royce not FWD?
RX as RWD based vehicle would be pointless.
Thats the argument as for why this "sporty look" on the RX and ES is so pointless. They turn away their bread and butter with how the vehicle looks, when it doesn't have the platform or the capability to appeal to the buyer they could reach with the styling.
Don't want to beat the drum on this, like I said I love the new RX, I may in fact buy one, but I do agree with RNM GS3 that the time has come for Lexus really to jump into the true premium market with both feet and stop dabbling in Buick territory, it holds them back.
Last edited by SW17LS; 04-03-15 at 01:16 PM.
#752
There is absolutely nothing rugged or capable about an RX. The RX is not a vehicle meant to be taken offroad...its not a GX.
Making an RX look rugged like a Jeep would be ridiculous. Its a street vehicle, and I applaud them for not pretending it isn't. If you want a vehicle that looks like a Jeep...buy a Jeep...I did!
Making an RX look rugged like a Jeep would be ridiculous. Its a street vehicle, and I applaud them for not pretending it isn't. If you want a vehicle that looks like a Jeep...buy a Jeep...I did!
If they're happy building a non-enthusiast vehicle, fine. No enthusiast is going to buy a FWD based RX, they'll buy the ML and X5. As good as this RX looks to be, it will always be an afterthought compared to the X5 and ML when it comes to enthusiasts. The RX sells great, but they are saying they want to appeal to the enthusiast.
I priced a fully loaded RX450h against a fully loaded ML350 and the ML was only $1300 more.
I am very much enjoying the discussion by the way!
-Eric
Last edited by ericsan13; 04-03-15 at 02:03 PM.
#753
I wonder what the release of information about the new 2016 RX will affect sales of the current 2015, especially since the 2016 won't be available until late this year? Might slow down sales for the 2015's causing dealers to offer better deals?
#754
Lexus Fanatic
As a potential shopper of X5 and the ML(GLE), I really don't care if it is RWD based. What advantage does it provide?
A few of them:
1. RWD vehicles are in general smoother in the power delivery department.
2. RWD vehicles have more even weight distribution, FWD vehicles are front heavy
3. Power delivery while turning and cornering is better, since the drive wheels are not the steering wheels. Power delivery when turning pushing from the rear helps drive you through a turn too, can't do that with a FWD vehicle.
4. RWD helps with styling elements. Hate the RX's overhag/beak? Thats because its FWD. FWD vehicles (on the whole) have engines that sit in front of the front axle, because the power needs to be fed from the engine, to the transmission, back to the drive wheels. Having the engine sitting in front of the front axle makes the car look short hooded, and it also creates the weight distribution issue I mentioned. RWD vehicles have the engine behind the front axle, making a shorter front overhang, better weight distribution and overall better looking RWD proportions.
5. RWD vehicles have less moving parts to break over time.
Theres a reason race cars and premium cars are overwhelmingly RWD, and economy cars are overwhelmingly FWD.
ML and X5 are seen as more rugged even though they too are street cars. They have offroad packages or similar...why not RX?
This is a good point, they are trying to appeal to 'enthusiasts' while trying not to alienate their current population. What kind of enthusiasts are you talking about though? The X5 and ML are afterthoughts for me compared to the RX and the FWD point is negated if you buy AWD.
Buying AWD doesn't negate the issue. An AWD RX is still at its core a FWD vehicle. It has a transverse mounted engine, mounted in front of the front axle, and most power is sent to the front, and then directed to the rear when there is slippage. Thats the issue, an AWD Jeep, or my AWD GS, or an X5 or ML or anything like that has a longitudinally mounted engine, behind the front axle, with most power directed to the rear until slippage occurs then its shunted to the front.
Its like me saying I don't understand why an automatic movement in a watch is better than a quartz movement. I'm not a watch enthusiast, all the watches I own are quartz movement. Doesn't mean the automatic movement isn't better...it is...I just am not an enthusiast so I don't understand. Same thing here. Watch enthusiasts buy quality watches with automatic movements. Auto enthusiasts buy quality vehicles with RWD power trains.
I am very much enjoying the discussion by the way!
#755
Lexus Fanatic
It will slow it down somewhat. But...most buyers won't realize a new RX is even coming.
#756
Perhaps most buyers are not like me, as I research what I'm considering buying. I spent the better part of a month reading everything I could find about the RX 350, including joining the Club Lexus Forum before I bought one. When you go to the Lexus website you can't miss the fact there's a new 2016 coming soon.
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chance4u (07-18-19)
#757
Lead Lap
So you do know that the Italians Jeeps are actually German Mercedes MLs underneath. Heck the challenger, 300, charger are all mb platforms modernized.
#758
Lexus Fanatic
Perhaps most buyers are not like me, as I research what I'm considering buying. I spent the better part of a month reading everything I could find about the RX 350, including joining the Club Lexus Forum before I bought one. When you go to the Lexus website you can't miss the fact there's a new 2016 coming soon.
Your approach (and my approach) is perfectly reasonable considering the significance of the purchase. But, people are nuts.
#759
Thanks for the succinct information on RWD.
None taken. I would still consider myself a 'driving enthusiast'...however the things I value are different from the benefits of RWD you listed. Personally I am interested in the 450h and points 1, 2, and 3 are less relevant with the hybrid. Point 5 not so much because Lexus just has awesome reliability.
The RX is successful because it hits the mark on so many things that I do not fault it for being a fuel economy focused FWD platform. This is a plus for the majority, who aren't 'racing enthusiasts', which is really where RWD is king.
So then if Lexus really wanted to target enthusiasts, they would produce a more robust AWD system that has a rear-bias. I'm most interested in the 450h AWD myself and hoping there will be more push from the rear, but this is not a requirement.
Hey, weren't you just defending the 4RX not too long ago??
-Eric
The RX is successful because it hits the mark on so many things that I do not fault it for being a fuel economy focused FWD platform. This is a plus for the majority, who aren't 'racing enthusiasts', which is really where RWD is king.
Hey, weren't you just defending the 4RX not too long ago??
-Eric
#760
I know one thing, no deals, or very little on the 2016's first few weeks, as demand will exceed supply until inventories build up some at the dealers. The start of the last generation was a madhouse trying to get one at the very beginning, as all of us early release 2010 RX buyers remember.
#761
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I don't see why the RX on a GS platform would have to cost $5-10k more. I acknowledged above that I'm willing to give it time, but the FWD architecture is a major issue for Lexus. They're never going to be looked upon with parity if their top selling cars are FWD.
I'll grant you the GLA, didn't think about it, but the A Class and B Class aren't really sold here, the B Class only as an electric car which is a niche.
In any event, these are downmarket value cars. Lexus is selling FWD cars up in the mid market segment at $45-65k...
I'll grant you the GLA, didn't think about it, but the A Class and B Class aren't really sold here, the B Class only as an electric car which is a niche.
In any event, these are downmarket value cars. Lexus is selling FWD cars up in the mid market segment at $45-65k...
FWD also brings packaging benefits, particular for smaller vehicles. You get more usable internal space (esp. boot space) in a more compact package. Hence why BMW has already stated that all 1 series based vehicles (next 1, 2, X1 etc) will likely be FWD, especially after their internal testing showed the vast majority of their 1, 2, 3 series owners didn't realise their cars were RWD, and wouldn't have changed their purchase decision if the car was FWD. Audi is a case in point. Their Quattro systems have not been particularly RWD biased until recently, hence their cars always had terrible understeer on the track. The majority of Audis sold worldwide are also FWD. RWD traditionally has been the domain of larger, more performance orientated vehicles because you couldn't get that much power down through the front wheels. But it doesn't make sense for small vehicles really, especially for those who use vehicles as city runabouts (which to be honest, is 95% of the worldwide purchasing population).
Your comment about the MBenz vehicles is very US centric. The rest of the world doesn't need/want such massive trucks as the US favours for a variety of reasons. Those small vehicles are big selling vehicles overseas for Benz, and a massive gateway for their brand. Get them in with an A Class, they'll buy a C class, then an E or an SUV etc etc.
Hey, I'm an enthusiast like yourself. I even have a second car that I own purely for weekend driving. However, the vast VAST majority of the population couldn't care a toss if the car was RWD or FWD. At dinner with some friends a few weeks ago, 3 of the couples had recently bought German cars. One an X5, one an ML, and one a 5 series. All buy German cars almost exclusively. When I asked them what were the main reasons for buying those vehicles, they said "interior luxury and image" overwhelmingly. None of them optioned any of the "performance" options that weren't cosmetic. None of the soccer moms that I drive past on the way to work, with the fleets of X5s, MLs or Range Rovers give any thought to whether a car was RWD or FWD, Nurburgring times, flat cornering, off road ability etc etc. My own mother, who owned about 5 generations of Mercedes (C, E and S) in a row never even realised that any of her cars were RWD until I mentioned it to her. The majority of the population just want comfort/luxury and the badge. I can bet you if tomorrow, Kia came out with an X5 clone, and people had a the choice of a Kia or a BMW, they'd still pick the BMW 99% of the time purely for the badge alone. It's the way the world works.
Btw, for most overseas markets, 45-65k is barely into premium territory. An X1, GLA can easily get to 60+k in Australia.
But back on topic, I think the RX will be a hit. It may not be what the Lexus traditionalists like, but I think they'll bring in a new younger demographic, which will have more long term purchasing power. I hope Lexus do push out and utilise more unique platforms in the future, but it'll take some time before that occurs. I think more importantly than platforms, are drivetrain development, and I hope we see what the next gen hybrid system plus Lexus turbos are capable of.
#762
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Perhaps most buyers are not like me, as I research what I'm considering buying. I spent the better part of a month reading everything I could find about the RX 350, including joining the Club Lexus Forum before I bought one. When you go to the Lexus website you can't miss the fact there's a new 2016 coming soon.
A colleague at work recently bought a new Land Rover Discovery. He bought it 3 weeks before the new model was released, yet the dealer made no mention of the new model coming out to him.
Most people do little research at all unfortunately.
#763
Instructor
You'd be shocked lol. A lot of people just walk in off the street and say "Hey, I want to buy a car" and thats it. SW13GS
My 85 year young mother-in-law liked the way it looked, we knew of Lexus reputation for luxury & reliability, but did no research. We love the car.
My 85 year young mother-in-law liked the way it looked, we knew of Lexus reputation for luxury & reliability, but did no research. We love the car.
Last edited by raylor4; 04-03-15 at 06:31 PM.
#765
Lexus Fanatic
If I'm paying $60,000 for a vehicle (which this vehicle will be with options) it should be on a premium platform.
Hey, weren't you just defending the 4RX not too long ago??