Dead transmission
02-12-18, 01:15 PM
#1
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Dead transmission
2015 RX350 101K km. The transmission died. It was luckily covered under warranty until 110K km.
Just curious if anyone has had same problem or knows someone with similar issue on this car.
Just curious if anyone has had same problem or knows someone with similar issue on this car.
02-12-18, 01:20 PM
#2
Moderator
It happens once in a while. This same transmission is used in many Toyota/Lexus vehicles and has been mostly very reliable. However, if a company makes hundreds of thousands of transmissions, used in many different vehicles under differing conditions, you are going to get some failures once you reach 100,000 miles or more. Luckily you had coverage.
Contrary to the manufacturers recommendation, it does help to do a transmission fluid change around 50,000 miles. It can help prevent a situation like yours. It only costs about $200 - $300 at a dealer.
Contrary to the manufacturers recommendation, it does help to do a transmission fluid change around 50,000 miles. It can help prevent a situation like yours. It only costs about $200 - $300 at a dealer.
02-13-18, 09:34 AM
#3
It happens once in a while. This same transmission is used in many Toyota/Lexus vehicles and has been mostly very reliable. However, if a company makes hundreds of thousands of transmissions, used in many different vehicles under differing conditions, you are going to get some failures once you reach 100,000 miles or more. Luckily you had coverage.
Contrary to the manufacturers recommendation, it does help to do a transmission fluid change around 50,000 miles. It can help prevent a situation like yours. It only costs about $200 - $300 at a dealer.
Contrary to the manufacturers recommendation, it does help to do a transmission fluid change around 50,000 miles. It can help prevent a situation like yours. It only costs about $200 - $300 at a dealer.
02-13-18, 10:14 AM
#4
Moderator
No hard data is available. Just common sense and experience from owning and maintaining my many cars over the past few decades and belonging to and participating in several auto forums including www.bobistheoilguy.com which is inhabited by much more maintenance obsessed folks and petroleum engineers and other auto industry folks who think it is a good idea for long term reliability.
The car companies only care if the vehicle makes if out of warranty intact and maybe can get thru the life of an extended service contract without a warranty claim for the major components such as engine, transmission, transfer case.
Case in point VW used a sealed smaller Aisin 09G model 6 speed automatic transmission (Aisin makes our transmission and is owned by Toyota) that was similar to ours and so called sealed for life. The same transmission was used in my 2008 MINI Cooper S. Anyway, VW began to get so many transmission failures at the end of the warranty period that they issued a notice to all owners calling for all vehicles with that transmission to come in and have the fluid changed at 40,000 miles. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...smission-fluid
In addition some well regarded media auto mechanic experts such as the Car Talk brothers on Public Radio and Patt Goss on Motorweek TV show advise to change the fluid/do a fluid exchange (the proper term for what is incorrectly called a flush) at 30,000 miles or so. Both the Car Talk guys (well the one brother still alive) and Pat Goss still operate independent car repair facilities and have for many years.
It seems to make sense to me that fluid gets contaminated over time, due to wear of transmission parts, uses up its additives and loses some of its lubricating, cooling and protective properties. This is almost exactly the same circumstances as with engine oil (minus the combustion contamination) which we all change much more often for the same reasons. Why would a transmission be any different except with longer intervals?
It may not have to be changed if you only lease or keep a car a few years. However for the long term and to get better shift performance, I consider such maintenance would be money well spent as a form of insurance and will continue to change the transmission fluid in my vehicles.
You can do what you like and seek non existent or buried double blind scientific studies hidden away in GM or Toyota secret labs to justify not changing your own fluid, or just change the fluid and drive on with your life.
The car companies only care if the vehicle makes if out of warranty intact and maybe can get thru the life of an extended service contract without a warranty claim for the major components such as engine, transmission, transfer case.
Case in point VW used a sealed smaller Aisin 09G model 6 speed automatic transmission (Aisin makes our transmission and is owned by Toyota) that was similar to ours and so called sealed for life. The same transmission was used in my 2008 MINI Cooper S. Anyway, VW began to get so many transmission failures at the end of the warranty period that they issued a notice to all owners calling for all vehicles with that transmission to come in and have the fluid changed at 40,000 miles. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...smission-fluid
In addition some well regarded media auto mechanic experts such as the Car Talk brothers on Public Radio and Patt Goss on Motorweek TV show advise to change the fluid/do a fluid exchange (the proper term for what is incorrectly called a flush) at 30,000 miles or so. Both the Car Talk guys (well the one brother still alive) and Pat Goss still operate independent car repair facilities and have for many years.
It seems to make sense to me that fluid gets contaminated over time, due to wear of transmission parts, uses up its additives and loses some of its lubricating, cooling and protective properties. This is almost exactly the same circumstances as with engine oil (minus the combustion contamination) which we all change much more often for the same reasons. Why would a transmission be any different except with longer intervals?
It may not have to be changed if you only lease or keep a car a few years. However for the long term and to get better shift performance, I consider such maintenance would be money well spent as a form of insurance and will continue to change the transmission fluid in my vehicles.
You can do what you like and seek non existent or buried double blind scientific studies hidden away in GM or Toyota secret labs to justify not changing your own fluid, or just change the fluid and drive on with your life.
Last edited by Clutchless; 02-13-18 at 10:32 AM.
02-13-18, 02:02 PM
#5
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
So the transmission died at 101K km which is less than 63K miles.
But yes, the service person said I should do next transmission fluid change after 80K km even though the maintenance is scheduled every 96K km.
And on a related note, would someone be able to tell me what RPM should this car be at when driving at 60mph or 75mph or 100km/h or 110km/h or 120km/h. I just want to confirm transmission is shifting to last gear since it just feels like RPMs are little higher than they used to be before the transmission change when I am cruising on the highway.
But yes, the service person said I should do next transmission fluid change after 80K km even though the maintenance is scheduled every 96K km.
And on a related note, would someone be able to tell me what RPM should this car be at when driving at 60mph or 75mph or 100km/h or 110km/h or 120km/h. I just want to confirm transmission is shifting to last gear since it just feels like RPMs are little higher than they used to be before the transmission change when I am cruising on the highway.
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royalleade (02-15-18)
02-14-18, 04:21 AM
#7
Pole Position
Just curious, what data do you have that changing the transmission fluid would prevent something like this. I have an SC also and they went to the sealed transmission in 06 and this is discussed at times in that forum. A number of people have made similar statements about changing the fluid. I am not saying you are wrong, but please provide something that backs up this statement. No one in the SC forum has been able to do so. It is always just that new fluid must do something positive.
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02-14-18, 06:50 AM
#8
Moderator
I really did not notice your mileage was kilometers until now. I think for any transmission to fail at that low a mileage it must have had some manufacturing defect and that whether or not the fluid was changed would not be an issue.
I think the Lexus quality control staff will want to examine that transmission to determine the failure mode for future design reference. It would be great to find out what actually happened. The solenoid valve body was a problem on some earlier Aisin 6 speed automatics (think 09G) after they ran up a lot of miles, over 40,000.
You can confirm if you are in 6th gear by shifting over to S mode and watching the display on your dash. It should show a downshift and you should feel it.
I think the Lexus quality control staff will want to examine that transmission to determine the failure mode for future design reference. It would be great to find out what actually happened. The solenoid valve body was a problem on some earlier Aisin 6 speed automatics (think 09G) after they ran up a lot of miles, over 40,000.
You can confirm if you are in 6th gear by shifting over to S mode and watching the display on your dash. It should show a downshift and you should feel it.
The following users liked this post:
royalleade (02-15-18)
02-14-18, 07:06 AM
#9
No hard data is available. Just common sense and experience from owning and maintaining my many cars over the past few decades and belonging to and participating in several auto forums including www.bobistheoilguy.com which is inhabited by much more maintenance obsessed folks and petroleum engineers and other auto industry folks who think it is a good idea for long term reliability.
The car companies only care if the vehicle makes if out of warranty intact and maybe can get thru the life of an extended service contract without a warranty claim for the major components such as engine, transmission, transfer case.
Case in point VW used a sealed smaller Aisin 09G model 6 speed automatic transmission (Aisin makes our transmission and is owned by Toyota) that was similar to ours and so called sealed for life. The same transmission was used in my 2008 MINI Cooper S. Anyway, VW began to get so many transmission failures at the end of the warranty period that they issued a notice to all owners calling for all vehicles with that transmission to come in and have the fluid changed at 40,000 miles. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...smission-fluid
In addition some well regarded media auto mechanic experts such as the Car Talk brothers on Public Radio and Patt Goss on Motorweek TV show advise to change the fluid/do a fluid exchange (the proper term for what is incorrectly called a flush) at 30,000 miles or so. Both the Car Talk guys (well the one brother still alive) and Pat Goss still operate independent car repair facilities and have for many years.
It seems to make sense to me that fluid gets contaminated over time, due to wear of transmission parts, uses up its additives and loses some of its lubricating, cooling and protective properties. This is almost exactly the same circumstances as with engine oil (minus the combustion contamination) which we all change much more often for the same reasons. Why would a transmission be any different except with longer intervals?
It may not have to be changed if you only lease or keep a car a few years. However for the long term and to get better shift performance, I consider such maintenance would be money well spent as a form of insurance and will continue to change the transmission fluid in my vehicles.
You can do what you like and seek non existent or buried double blind scientific studies hidden away in GM or Toyota secret labs to justify not changing your own fluid, or just change the fluid and drive on with your life.
The car companies only care if the vehicle makes if out of warranty intact and maybe can get thru the life of an extended service contract without a warranty claim for the major components such as engine, transmission, transfer case.
Case in point VW used a sealed smaller Aisin 09G model 6 speed automatic transmission (Aisin makes our transmission and is owned by Toyota) that was similar to ours and so called sealed for life. The same transmission was used in my 2008 MINI Cooper S. Anyway, VW began to get so many transmission failures at the end of the warranty period that they issued a notice to all owners calling for all vehicles with that transmission to come in and have the fluid changed at 40,000 miles. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...smission-fluid
In addition some well regarded media auto mechanic experts such as the Car Talk brothers on Public Radio and Patt Goss on Motorweek TV show advise to change the fluid/do a fluid exchange (the proper term for what is incorrectly called a flush) at 30,000 miles or so. Both the Car Talk guys (well the one brother still alive) and Pat Goss still operate independent car repair facilities and have for many years.
It seems to make sense to me that fluid gets contaminated over time, due to wear of transmission parts, uses up its additives and loses some of its lubricating, cooling and protective properties. This is almost exactly the same circumstances as with engine oil (minus the combustion contamination) which we all change much more often for the same reasons. Why would a transmission be any different except with longer intervals?
It may not have to be changed if you only lease or keep a car a few years. However for the long term and to get better shift performance, I consider such maintenance would be money well spent as a form of insurance and will continue to change the transmission fluid in my vehicles.
You can do what you like and seek non existent or buried double blind scientific studies hidden away in GM or Toyota secret labs to justify not changing your own fluid, or just change the fluid and drive on with your life.
02-14-18, 08:13 AM
#10
Moderator
In my opinion the VW Aisin 09G transmission failures and later notice to change fluid at 40,000 miles is more than anecdotal.
02-14-18, 01:06 PM
#12
Moderator
It (the TF-60SN) is similar enough being from the same manufacturer and having the same number of gears and being used on vehicles during the same model years to be used as a comparison. It was the one for 4 cylinder motors and ours (the U660E) is for 6 cylinder motors.
Both use a Lepelletier gear design https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lepell...gear_mechanism
You will never find data on the exact transmission in this vehicle. You are seeking the holy grail about this issue. I was speaking in generalities about any automatic transmissions as I think that is the standard to apply.
Both use a Lepelletier gear design https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lepell...gear_mechanism
You will never find data on the exact transmission in this vehicle. You are seeking the holy grail about this issue. I was speaking in generalities about any automatic transmissions as I think that is the standard to apply.
02-15-18, 02:54 PM
#13
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
02-15-18, 02:59 PM
#14
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
I really did not notice your mileage was kilometers until now. I think for any transmission to fail at that low a mileage it must have had some manufacturing defect and that whether or not the fluid was changed would not be an issue.
I think the Lexus quality control staff will want to examine that transmission to determine the failure mode for future design reference. It would be great to find out what actually happened. The solenoid valve body was a problem on some earlier Aisin 6 speed automatics (think 09G) after they ran up a lot of miles, over 40,000.
You can confirm if you are in 6th gear by shifting over to S mode and watching the display on your dash. It should show a downshift and you should feel it.
I think the Lexus quality control staff will want to examine that transmission to determine the failure mode for future design reference. It would be great to find out what actually happened. The solenoid valve body was a problem on some earlier Aisin 6 speed automatics (think 09G) after they ran up a lot of miles, over 40,000.
You can confirm if you are in 6th gear by shifting over to S mode and watching the display on your dash. It should show a downshift and you should feel it.
And they said they could get a better idea if they opened up the transmission but they won't do that because Lexus won't pay them to do that.
The transmission fluid had metal filings in the pan so apparently they just send a picture of that to Lexus to get new transmission and labour paid for.
I never actually tried driving in S mode but its a good idea... I'll try it out to confirm. Thanks!
02-15-18, 03:05 PM
#15
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
I have seen all of that in the SC forum. Just a bunch of anecdotal evidence. I want data that shows failures related to not changing the fluid vs. changing it. I am with Freds430 on this one. I will trust the engineers at Toyota. I have also heard the same thing (don't change the fluid) from Flow Lexus in Greensboro NC.
She also said the trans oil was in bad condition. Again the maintenance schedule says to change at 96K and I was at 101K so not so far away.
So who should we believe?